Slay the Spire

Slay the Spire

The Immortal 藤原妹红
Autmn  [developer] 1 Jan, 2024 @ 7:53am
Balance Discussion
Discuss anything about Mokou's balance.
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Zu 3 Jan, 2024 @ 10:54am 
So, I know that regen is an integral part of Mokou's game plan, but I really don't think that eternal flame should be able to produce olive branch.
Autmn  [developer] 3 Jan, 2024 @ 6:53pm 
That makes sense. I believe creative ai is also unable to generate self repair. The reason I included it is because Mokou's Fuel pool is very small, with 3 commons, 2 uncommons and 2 rares, compared to defect's giant power pool. I will probably lower its chance by at least 50%.
Zu 4 Jan, 2024 @ 12:35am 
From the comments:

I meant "Don't let the starter relic revive you at all. Let it heal you at like 15% max hp instead or something." I suppose getting 1 rekindle at that threshold might also work, or only after climbing 5 floors if you have none, or only once you have done any combination of 3 ignites, furies, and/or embers each combat.

Just spitballing so it's less readily abusable. Like, if gremlin nob practically heals you for ~10 unconditionally, that's a vault with self-repair+. If lagavulin doesn't krill you and then syphons next turn, that's almost like 2 vaults in a row. You see where this is going.
Autmn  [developer] 4 Jan, 2024 @ 3:01am 
I just had an idea. Instead of passively gaining 1 Rekindle, the relic can add a card that gain 1 Rekindle. The card can be a 2 cost power with Retain, and with bonus line of Ignite(5), Fury or Ember, Gain 1 energy. This would not only introduce a new player to these keywords, but also have a consistent way to trigger Fuel once. If the player does well enough in battle, they don't even need to play this card.

PS: I realized that this has become a pattern. Last time when I redesigned Keine's starting relic, I did very similar things, adding a retain exhaust card to your hand xD
Last edited by Autmn; 4 Jan, 2024 @ 4:44am
Charles O. Ward 13 Jan, 2024 @ 10:51am 
I think the Rekindle mechanic is good as it is, to fit thematically and also it doesn't help out too much if Max Health remains at its original value.

However, on my one playthrough I've done using this character I've felt like the Burn mechanic is fairly overpowered and most of the Ignite(X) conditions are too easy to achieve. I basically did not ever have to worry about the Ignite condition at some point, since I managed to create almost 50 Burn a round. And Scorch made that even easier to achieve.

With Burn, the Heart was basically a cake-walk.

Though I'm not sure if that should be changed too much, since even with Burn working so well for me, the exchange was an extreme lack of Block cards.
Autmn  [developer] 13 Jan, 2024 @ 8:28pm 
Thanks for your kind words (in the comment section).

And yes, I definitely agree. Despite being a worse Poison mechanically (Burn decays faster), the reason Burn is a lot better is there are many cards that applies or synergies with Burn, compared to Silent's very limited Poison pool. And exactly as you said, Mokou's Block generation is specifically designed to be below average character, either being very low on value or have conditions. I do believe both of these are fitting for Mokou herself, since she cares more about her enemies perishing in flame rather than her own defense.

The reason I designed Ignite bar to be relatively low is, without a consistent way to apply Burn in early game, they can still be challenging to achieve. A lot of cards have Ignite(5) for example, which takes 3 Feathers, and with Burn decay from 6 to 4, the next turn you will have to apply 1 more to achieve 5 again. In late game with a much condensed deck it can be much easier, so a higher bar wouldn't likely to make much of a difference at that point.

Also, not sure if you are aware, there is a special Act 4 boss, which normally replaces the Heart if you play as Mokou. So I'm not sure how you got to the Heart in the first place (might be some conflicts with other mods).
Charles O. Ward 14 Jan, 2024 @ 12:37am 
I was wondering about that, yes. (With me fighting the normal heart).

I got the normal Heart Boss fight, though also after fighting Act 3 Boss I got the regular run Heart cutscene (which confused me).
The reason is probably some other mod, but I couldn't tell you which one.
Kawaii Mercenary 18 Jan, 2024 @ 10:12am 
I understand your reasoning for having burn be so strong, but it's still disgustingly overpowered. If you just take one or two Flame Dance and Smoke and Feathers, especially if you get a Burning Soul, it's pretty much a guaranteed win - especially if you get Carefree and regen giving fuels. Burn definitely needs some sort of nerf, and standard attacks need some sort of buff, because there's not much reason to build anything ***but*** burn, even on the mode where you just always have vigour.
Autmn  [developer] 18 Jan, 2024 @ 7:50pm 
That is fair. The feather architype is mainly limited by Time Eater and Corrupt Mokou's mechanics that punishes you for playing too many cards. And the fact that you have to reapply Burn on the second phase of bosses since they cleanse debuffs. But I guess at the moment, Burn decks are strong enough to just doesn't care much about it. I will test things around a bit, but Burning Soul will definitely get a nerf.
Kawaii Mercenary 18 Jan, 2024 @ 8:00pm 
Originally posted by Autmn:
That is fair. The feather architype is mainly limited by Time Eater and Corrupt Mokou's mechanics that punishes you for playing too many cards. And the fact that you have to reapply Burn on the second phase of bosses since they cleanse debuffs. But I guess at the moment, Burn decks are strong enough to just doesn't care much about it. I will test things around a bit, but Burning Soul will definitely get a nerf.
Corrupt Mokou hardly even matters, either, since you can use carefree on the fuel she gives you and just get a ton of regen. Not to mention you can very easily get lots of stacks of rekindle, and if you have two copies of the draw and banish and the energy giving card, you have an infinite source of feathers and block and regen. Time Eater, Champion, and Gremlin Nob are the only hard fights for the deck.
Autmn  [developer] 18 Jan, 2024 @ 8:10pm 
That is a good point. I should probably specify Carefree and Invigorate to exhaust non-Curse Fuels to gain additional bonuses (just like the Grill relic). And thanks for all the feedback so far.
Zu 5 Jul, 2024 @ 11:15pm 
Out of curiosity, is Knowledge's draw limit supposed to start at 5? I never thought about it until I played Keine again and noticed the disparity. I mean, I could totally see the reason being that Keine already maxed her Wisdom for you.

So basically Keine OP. (No, just kidding.)
Autmn  [developer] 6 Jul, 2024 @ 8:56am 
Yes. Wisdom mechanic didn't exist until a patch that's a couple of weeks since the initial release of Keine (which is also the patch that added Keyword Knowledgeable and made more Knowledgeable cards). Here you get to experience the OP beta version of Knowledge indeed.
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