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Empyrion - Galactic Survival >  Workshop > ravien_ff's Workshop > Reforged Eden 2 Beta > Discussions
Reforged Eden 2 Beta
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jarchambeault 23 Jun @ 6:56pm
POI generator under indestructible foundation
I was attacking a zirax drone base with a dome shield. I didn't have a dome shield so I tried to disable all the generators so I could assault the base on foot and take out the cores (works for most other POIs). I destroyed all the generators but one was ridiculously stubborn. After about 30 min of attacks, eventually I parked my ship and turned on GM and went in to see whats what. My multitool identified the area above the generator as indestructible foundation.

So was that a purposeful POI design choice to put the generator under indestructible blocks?

Second question, if that was purposeful, is there any reasonable way to get the dome shield? If the generator is still going, the shield prevents you from destroying the cores (or spawners) so it seems like you have to destroy the shield to core the base. Or maybe leave my ship firing at the generator "forever" and drain the shields without doing any damage, while you assault the base, but that seems like a heck of alot of ammo to burn, especially since the drones keep launching and I was worried to leave my unattended ship in a combat zone. Or was it maybe intended for multiplayer?

It was a three core base, so maybe the intent was to make it tough, but I haven't found many indestructible barriers like that. Is that more prevalent than I'm aware of? It didn't help that the section of the base with the last generator didn't "resolve" as anything other than terrain until I got really, really close. For a while I guessed it was just buried under some "dirt."

Anyways, love some insight into the intent. As always, thanks alot for the work you put into everything.
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
treker_ed 24 Jun @ 1:25am 
If it's the POI I'm thinking of, The Drone base, with a dome shield, the shield generator is on the outside of the POI, top of the building in the dish like stucture. So once you've dropped the shield, the shield generator is able to be destroyed. And yes, having indestructible foundations is a design choice as it stops players from burrowing under a POI to try and get to a core to cheese their way in, it forces the player to run the POI as designed!
#1
jarchambeault 24 Jun @ 5:23am 
To be clear, the indestructible blocks were not on the “floor” to protect from burrowing, but were on the “ceiling” protecting the generator underneath from ship attack. First time I saw that on a Zirax (non-story) POI. I expended so much ammo trying to breakthrough before I realized something was up.
#2
Polydeukes71 24 Jun @ 5:25am 
IIRC the indestructible blocks are a design choice. If you take the base apart after destroying the cores, you can see that the foundations are "indestructible" while the cores are active. I prevents the player from tunneling in and therefore "cheesing" the POI.

You are meant to take out the shield generator after taking down the shields as treker_ed mentioned.

So going in without destroying the shield is futile.

If its the drone base you are talking about, there is a layer of "Indestructibles" that separates the upper part from the lower. The basement is sandwiched basically and also protected towards the inner courtyard.

Cheers
Last edited by Polydeukes71; 24 Jun @ 5:28am
#3
treker_ed 24 Jun @ 5:39am 
Originally posted by jarchambeault:
To be clear, the indestructible blocks were not on the “floor” to protect from burrowing, but were on the “ceiling” protecting the generator underneath from ship attack. First time I saw that on a Zirax (non-story) POI. I expended so much ammo trying to breakthrough before I realized something was up.
There are three cores on three layers, there are indestructible blocks between each layer to stop cheesing the POI. Whether its just the base layer, or multiple layers is irrelevant, it's a design choice as mentioned, to stop the cheesing of the POI and forcing the player to run the POI as intended, instead of just burrowing from underneath as would happen in RE1.

One final point - pretty much every POI that is on the ground has indestructible foundation blocks. So it's not just Zirax POI's; you will find them on Legacy as well as Talon, Polaris, Farr etc, just in case you want to go full pirate and go to war with every single faction in the galaxy!
Last edited by treker_ed; 24 Jun @ 5:45am
#4
Dyspayr 24 Jun @ 6:11am 
Originally posted by jarchambeault:
I was attacking a zirax drone base with a dome shield. I didn't have a dome shield so I tried to disable all the generators so I could assault the base on foot and take out the cores...

Even if you manage to take out the cores with the shield generator intact, like with the alien turrets you will only be able to recover a 'damaged' version of the shield that can be deconstructed for some useful components but otherwise useless.
#5
SGT Roc/K/ 24 Jun @ 3:57pm 
This is one of my big complaints about RE2, a player should be able to destroy a POI however they choose. The addition of indestructible blocks, multiple core, and other antiplayer blocks is bad scenario design in my opinon.
#6
jarchambeault 24 Jun @ 6:00pm 
Thanks for the feedback, everyone.
#7
Vermillion  [developer] 24 Jun @ 6:08pm 
The roof of the Drone Base is indestructible so that players firing at the shield generator (which is outside, on the top and should always be destroyed first) do not accidentally blow through into the room underneath, which contains a switch to unlock core room 2 on the floor below and the basement.
If you did destroy that console, you would need to burrow through several layers of combat steel to reach the basement, even if it didn't have indestructible floors.

Bad Scenario design? "I can make a better car than that" says the illiterate cashier at McDonalds to Ferrari's lead designer.
#8
SLI_Fallen 25 Jun @ 6:01am 
Vermillion. I completely apologize for hijacking the thread with completely unrelated question. (thought about the github bug reporting but it's really a steam thing) Your Reforged Galaxy 2 scenario is missing from the workshop. I actually had removed it with the intent to reinstall as it had "Broken" (There was no picture for the scenario, no description, and the last update showed to be in 1969!) I just figured my install was messed up which is why I was just going to remove/redownload that. Otherwise all steam files validate fine but I can no longer find the scenario on the workshop. (hense the hijack here since I cant otherwise message you) Again, apologies (to all) for the hijack.
#9
UncreativelyNamed 25 Jun @ 7:08am 
Originally posted by SGT Roc/K/:
This is one of my big complaints about RE2, a player should be able to destroy a POI however they choose. The addition of indestructible blocks, multiple core, and other antiplayer blocks is bad scenario design in my opinon.

In your opinion, sure. In my opinion, I prefer to run the POIs in the obvious intended way. Heck, even when the occasional glitch happens and a door/area is open that shouldn't yet be open (happens in abandoned POIs sometimes, if you run the same POI more than once in a game session), I proceed as if the area isn't open.

But in the end? This is a scenario created by two people who seem to have a pretty clear vision as to how they want the game to work. If you don't like their preferences and decisions, then find a different scenario to play or make your own that conforms to how YOU want to play the game.

I completely understand why people complain about the vanilla game. It ought to work better than it does. I DON'T understand why people complain about decisions made by creators of scenarios. You are in no way forced to play or to continue to play custom scenarios, so if you don't like what the creator(s) of them do with the scenario and they don't appear to open to doing things how you want, then move on.
Last edited by UncreativelyNamed; 25 Jun @ 7:10am
#10
SGT Roc/K/ 25 Jun @ 7:21am 
Originally posted by UncreativelyNamed:
Originally posted by SGT Roc/K/:
This is one of my big complaints about RE2, a player should be able to destroy a POI however they choose. The addition of indestructible blocks, multiple core, and other antiplayer blocks is bad scenario design in my opinon.

In your opinion, sure. In my opinion, I prefer to run the POIs in the obvious intended way. Heck, even when the occasional glitch happens and a door/area is open that shouldn't yet be open (happens in abandoned POIs sometimes, if you run the same POI more than once in a game session), I proceed as if the area isn't open.

But in the end? This is a scenario created by two people who seem to have a pretty clear vision as to how they want the game to work. If you don't like their preferences and decisions, then find a different scenario to play or make your own that conforms to how YOU want to play the game.

I completely understand why people complain about the vanilla game. It ought to work better than it does. I DON'T understand why people complain about decisions made by creators of scenarios. You are in no way forced to play or to continue to play custom scenarios, so if you don't like what the creator(s) of them do with the scenario and they don't appear to open to doing things how you want, then move on.
You're absolutely right - except that without RE and RE2, Empyrion likely would never have become so popular. Since I disagree with key design elements of RE2 - I don't play it, I play a scenario which is based off of it and has certain changes made so as to NOT force players to play a certain way.

In the end, I still subscribe to Gary Gygax's method of Dungeon design: Gary Gygax's approach to dungeon design, particularly in the early days of D&D, emphasized creating a believable and challenging environment for players, rather than just a random collection of rooms. He focused on establishing a clear sense of space, multiple paths, and hidden dangers, with a focus on making each room feel meaningful and potentially rewarding or perilous. "
#11
ravien_ff  [developer] 25 Jun @ 12:33pm 
Originally posted by SLI_Fallen:
Vermillion. I completely apologize for hijacking the thread with completely unrelated question. (thought about the github bug reporting but it's really a steam thing) Your Reforged Galaxy 2 scenario is missing from the workshop. I actually had removed it with the intent to reinstall as it had "Broken" (There was no picture for the scenario, no description, and the last update showed to be in 1969!) I just figured my install was messed up which is why I was just going to remove/redownload that. Otherwise all steam files validate fine but I can no longer find the scenario on the workshop. (hense the hijack here since I cant otherwise message you) Again, apologies (to all) for the hijack.

Reforged Galaxy 2 is still there but it's unlisted. It doesn't really serve any playable purpose except to test and upload changes.
If you want creative mode just start a RE2 game in creative mode.
#12
SLI_Fallen 25 Jun @ 2:48pm 
Thx Ravien_ff, I already had been migrating my creative saves from Galaxy to RE2 but was not quite done. Thanks for the clarification. We now return you to your regularly scheduled comments.
#13
moth hunter 25 Jun @ 5:28pm 
Originally posted by SGT Roc/K/:
In the end, I still subscribe to Gary Gygax's method of Dungeon design: Gary Gygax's approach to dungeon design, particularly in the early days of D&D, emphasized creating a believable and challenging environment for players, rather than just a random collection of rooms. He focused on establishing a clear sense of space, multiple paths, and hidden dangers, with a focus on making each room feel meaningful and potentially rewarding or perilous. "

Which... sounds like exactly what you get with many of the POIs in RE2...?
What you seem to ask for is the option to drill straight from the dungeon entrance to the treasure chest at the end, skipping every room and the boss fight.

In most games, being able to skip past all the obstacles in a level or dungeon would be considered a glitch.
#14
adxim 27 Jun @ 12:35am 
Originally posted by moth hunter:
Originally posted by SGT Roc/K/:
Which... sounds like exactly what you get with many of the POIs in RE2...?
What you seem to ask for is the option to drill straight from the dungeon entrance to the treasure chest at the end, skipping every room and the boss fight.

In most games, being able to skip past all the obstacles in a level or dungeon would be considered a glitch.

This game is glitched and endless bugged isn't it?. or can you say it wasn't in the first place?.

As for me RE2 is not worth it.. I simply like to call it some guy's MMO speed running..
Last edited by adxim; 27 Jun @ 12:38am
#15
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