If you hate TOW-2's you are really gonna hate the TOW-2B's and an AGM-114 Hellfires... the IRL Ruskies hate TOW-2's as well, its almost like their Shorta-1 system was a bunch of BS (it is/was).

I dont hate them its just ,,unfair'' for pact and basically unplayable if the enemy has a couple of them at the frontline

I agree with them doing more damage but not 8 HE worth of damage

Originally posted by ILO_K:

I dont hate them its just ,,unfair'' for pact and basically unplayable if the enemy has a couple of them at the frontline

womp womp womp

Originally posted by ILO_K:

I dont hate them its just ,,unfair'' for pact and basically unplayable if the enemy has a couple of them at the frontline

This is why you use other assets to take those out.

Example, as bad ass as M1A1HC's and M1A2's are, they get out-ranged by Soviet ATGM's launched from T-64's and T-80's, and those missiles hurt, a side hit with one of those nearly kills them. So what do I do to fight off Soviet armroed rushes? I use Apache Gunship Helo's, the Soviet counter to that is AA teams, the counter to that is NATO JDAM's or Artillery.

You need to use a counter to NATO ATGM teams, they are not capable of killing Helicopters (even though they should be able to shoot at them if the heli's are standing still), they are not capable of shooting down artillery or aircraft, so use what you got that they can't shoot at and kill it.

I know how to counter them, the problem is that, mostly only nato gets those ,,broken'' atgm's, shure pacts gets the vikhr and konkurs m, either you buff all of them and make tanks basically useless or buff them to a point where they still hurt and make mistakes cost but not oneshot T-80UD's or M1A2's from the front. i know this oneshot thing is more realistic than have them do like 2HE or something but he talked about implementations breaking the game (this would be one of them)

Originally posted by ILO_K:

I know how to counter them, the problem is that, mostly only nato gets those ,,broken'' atgm's, shure pacts gets the vikhr and konkurs m, either you buff all of them and make tanks basically useless or buff them to a point where they still hurt and make mistakes cost but not oneshot T-80UD's or M1A2's from the front. i know this oneshot thing is more realistic than have them do like 2HE or something but he talked about implementations breaking the game (this would be one of them)

Challenger, Challenger 2, Leopard 2's, and M1's all have Chobham armor which offers EXCEPTIONAL protection against HEAT and TANDEM HEAT warheads (M1IP had the upgraded Chobham for TANDEM). M1A1 HA/HC and M1A2's use DU armor plating in the front glacias and turret cheeks for additional protection in conjunction with locally improved "Chobham" armor. The UK continued their official version of Chobham as they invented it and further improved it, Germany uses a locally made version of it under license.

My point being NATO modern MBT's are exceptionally well protected from ATGM's, even the export model M1A1SA's that are in Ukraine survive MULTIPLE MODERN Russian ATGM hits where the crew survive, and those are not even using the best "Chobham" armor, in fact its still generation 1 with modifications.

Soviet tanks were using laminated armor which did provide additional protection just not to the extent that the latest NATO tanks had, that evidence has become very clear.

How does thath have to do with anything I sead about the 8HE Tow's?
Just to let you know, the Ussr has the Metis-M and the Vikhr with 8 and 10 HE respectively witch are mostly shooting against Nato tanks, because penetration does a lot of damage. And @IRS.gov
already told me that the HE values are not final and there still are 1HE missiles at Nato and pact side.

But talking about soviet armor, the T-64 has composit armor and depending on the model also ERA, ERA that was specificly made against HEAT projectiles.
The T-80 has a more advanced composit with steel and textolite layers at the hull and an aluminium alloy with glass fibre fabric at the Turret ~450mm against HEAT projectiles without ERA @0°

T-80B's and BV's have even more protection against HEAT with a new, more effective composition with the somewhat same materials (~600mm against Heat @0°) and Kontakt-1 adds arround 400mm against HEAT

T-80U's Have a cast turret with some kind of resin fillers that disrupt shaped charges, this plus Kontakt 5 calculates to arround 1000 to 1300mm of protection against HEAT
Some T-80U's are also equipped with Kevlar linings that reduce spalling and further try to negate shaped charges


Note* I know the Tow-2A has a tandem charge witch ignores ERA but lower grade Atgm's like Tow-1, Tow-2, Dragon I / II, Hellfire (AGM114A) dont have that.

I just want a more balanced approach towards AT measures that leave tanks in a still useful situation.

The original TOW missile was NOT Tandem, but the I-TOW WAS, TOW-2, TOW-2A and TOW-2B are all TANDEM HEAT with the TOW-2B being Top Attack.

Russian claims of protection on their tanks have been wildly exaggerated as proven in Ukraine. Russian T-90M tanks their "BEST" get wrecked by TOW-2 missiles all the time. In this mod the TOW-2 series would be near cutting edge, the TOW-2B would be cutting edge and is rarely seen in game (US Gunship Helo's should be using the TOW-2B variants for the high end variants).

Considering the fact that the best Russian armor in Ukraine today can't handle TOW-2's from the Early 90's tells me the tanks in this game circa 1993 would fair even worse.

Bruh do you even read my text?
Most Russain t-90M losses didnt happen to the front of the tank but to the side and rear, most of them werent even knocked out by tow's but by Mines and Artillery. And the armor from a T-80UD in 1993 until today dosent ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ change neither does a Tow model magically increase its pen. The argument is that the Tow's in this Mod have a unbalanced warhead THAT IS GONNA CHANGE IN THE FUTURE and not about the faliure of russain tanks in ukraine you can do your wahtabouttism to another guy but not me. And to the TOW-2 and ITOW, yes i read the wrong source. I'm fine with that. My whole argument was about them being unbalanced not on what is unrealistic. A Mod should make fun NOT pain in players that want to play the otherside of the Iron curtain. If we were talking about that a BUK had like 50km of range and the Russain tanks would outnumber the nato tanks by a longshot

Originally posted by ILO_K:

Bruh do you even read my text?
Most Russain t-90M losses didnt happen to the front of the tank but to the side and rear, most of them werent even knocked out by tow's but by Mines and Artillery. And the armor from a T-80UD in 1993 until today dosent ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ change neither does a Tow model magically increase its pen. The argument is that the Tow's in this Mod have a unbalanced warhead THAT IS GONNA CHANGE IN THE FUTURE and not about the faliure of russain tanks in ukraine you can do your wahtabouttism to another guy but not me. And to the TOW-2 and ITOW, yes i read the wrong source. I'm fine with that. My whole argument was about them being unbalanced not on what is unrealistic. A Mod should make fun NOT pain in players that want to play the otherside of the Iron curtain. If we were talking about that a BUK had like 50km of range and the Russain tanks would outnumber the nato tanks by a longshot

This is a mod made for free, if you do not think it is "balanced" go play vanilla then? idk what to tell you

that is why i made a suggestion xD