Few things from my previous day:

• Ability to add the base upgrade system into volks too? Like for example that they will be able to use scavange after it's researched in the building. They need their ammo very much.
  
• Fallschirmjager unit for their price the feel... little too weak. Maybe something is wrong with their stats? If not then maybe Fg42 should always stay with them to keep them some all range firepower? Or maybe there should be a long range upgrade where they would get at least one more fg42 and maybe a grenade?
  
• Stuka scatter problem. I really don't know how to expalin it but after a few matches I thing a scater for the primary ability is too low and survivng a stuka fire is really hard.
  
• Soviet panther is too cheap I think.It should cost the same amount or little more than a normal panther for ostheer and OKW. Or if you want to keep it that way then just put a higher CP.
  
• Maybe upgrades for weapons for allies should be a little lower? On the manpower side at least?

OKW SU-76 requires 12 CP to deploy. Considering that you roll out JadgTiger by 14 CP this requirement is extremely high. I recommend 5 CP instead.
OKW Standard PanzerGrens cost 320mp and requires 80mu to upgrade the MG42. Yet once you reach tier 2 you can build the same squad with default MG upgrade by 340mp. The cost efficiency of the standard PanzerGren is odd (20 mp saved for 80 mu, usually 3 to 4 mp = 1 mu in vanilla), while you are able to reach tier 2 in the first 3 minutes of the game as the upgrade cost is minimum (25 fu to build the structure).

Origineel geplaatst door CoarmiuS:

Few things from my previous day:

Thank you, most of these are already addressed or are being tested for the next patch.

Origineel geplaatst door FunnyFruit:

OKW SU-76 requires 12 CP to deploy. Considering that you roll out JadgTiger by 14 CP this requirement is extremely high. I recommend 5 CP instead.
OKW Standard PanzerGrens cost 320mp and requires 80mu to upgrade the MG42. Yet once you reach tier 2 you can build the same squad with default MG upgrade by 340mp. The cost efficiency of the standard PanzerGren is odd (20 mp saved for 80 mu, usually 3 to 4 mp = 1 mu in vanilla), while you are able to reach tier 2 in the first 3 minutes of the game as the upgrade cost is minimum (25 fu to build the structure).

Thanks for the feedback! The 12CP req is actually a preview spelling mistake. The actual call-in when picking the division is 6CP. Will be fixed in the next patch.

The upgrades for the PzGrens aren't meant to be purely an economical decision, but rather a specialization. Also, the vanilla rule of MP to MU doesn't really apply to my OKW - Munition is much more abundant than manpower, especially early on. Still I understand the concerns. I will try lowering upgrade cost a little while raising the MP cost of MG / Schreck PzGrens slightly to reflect the cost benefit.

Frontoviniki (T1 soviet squad) have definitly a too tight spread. It's extremly easy to wipe them in the open. They spread is only quite good in the long sandbags provided by conscripts (T0 soviet squad).

So I spent time playing around 15 matches against AI using all the factions since the mod's release and I got a general sense of the mod. I found some aspects that could be improved for the mod's overall balancing:

1. Base Medic Upgrade
Most faction's base medic upgrades are quite expensive and cost fuel, making their cost almost equivalent to an ambulance. I'd definitely choose ambulance as they have much better mobility, while the only downside is some minimum cost of population. Could have the base medic upgrade reduced to make them more favorable

2. Commander Infantry Units
A lot of commander units come with special weapons upgraded. This gives them a significant advantage over units available from base buildings, especially when they can be deployed at 0 cp. It is discouraging for a infantry section to encounter a German elite infantry squad with STG44s and an LMG42 at the 1st minute of the game. Could make the commander units available at 0-1 cp manually upgrade their weapons

3. Trenches / Emplacements
I don't know if this is a bug or not but infantry units target trenches themselves rather than infantry units garrisoned in it. This means the squad inside can face countless enemies as long as they don't have mortars or weapons with enough penetration. Should be adjusted.
Emplacements are currently very difficult to take out without armor. In vanilla one of the most efficient way to take out emplacements is to use AT guns' superior range to destroy them from afar. However, due to either the size reduction of emplacements or the accuracy reduction of AT guns, the method simply no longer works. AT gun miss more than half of their shots against the most common bunkers, and miss around ninety percent of their shots when blind shooting emplacements. I was shocked when I couldn't take out a German bunker after my AT gun had been firing for a minute with clear vision to the target. German Flak emplacements are especially difficult to take out. AT guns miss almost every time while mortars and flame weaponry deal no significant damage to them. Should increase emplacements' overall size to reduce their efficiency

4. Tread/Wheel/Destroyed Engine critical
I do like the increased random critical chance of vehicles in the mod, though the most severe vehicle critical are happening with an unusual frequency. Critical damages that immobilize a vehicle is the most powerful critical as it prevents the vehicle from retreating from a disadvantageous position, it's as fatal as a destroyed main gun. In PVP scenario an immobilized vehicle faces certain death. In vanilla, only special mines that are only available to AEF and Ostheer can cause such critical. In the mod however, the critical is simply way to common. I witnessed several times that my KingTiger got completely immobilized by an AT gun after its health just fall below 75%. I would recommend preventing critical that cause complete immobilization of vehicles triggering until reaching a much lower percentage of health, like below 20%.

I recognize the effort put in this mod and I have been very active to provide bug reports and balance feedback since the release. I hope these aspects of the mod could be improved to make the experience better. Thanks again.

Origineel geplaatst door CoarmiuS:

Frontoviniki (T1 soviet squad) have definitly a too tight spread. It's extremly easy to wipe them in the open. They spread is only quite good in the long sandbags provided by conscripts (T0 soviet squad).

This is indeed an odd issue that shouldn't happen. I will review the formation settings and fix it asap.

Origineel geplaatst door FunnyFruit:

1. Base Medic Upgrade

2. Commander Infantry Units

3. Trenches / Emplacements

4. Tread/Wheel/Destroyed Engine critical

I appreciate the effort put into playtesting and reporting here!

1. the Medic Upgrades are a playstyle decision - some prefer an ambulance, while other prefer less micro management and just get the base medics. I will look at their cost again, but I think they are reasonably priced.

2. Could you give me an example? Are we talking about Begleit Grenadiers? Festung Mode or Regular?

3. I am not sure if infantry CAN target individual guys inside the hold. Generally, I made trenches quite strong to reflect their utility in real life. They are submerged, so a pak gun wouldn't scratch them much. Flamethrowers, satchels and bundled grenades should be good against them though. I will revisit some of their "target size" values though. FlaKs are dangerous, yes, but artillery, smoke and multiple units can easily overwhelm them.

4. I understand your concern. The "tracks broken" critical is a fun challenge in PvE, but can be frustrating in PvP. I will attempt to balance it a bit. AT guns are deadly now, but I can consider lowering the chance of an engine hit in favor or more stuns.

This will go into a balance patch later this week at the earliest, but thanks a lot for the suggestions!

HG Grenadiers cost 390 mp. A lot. Basic unit don't scale that good but they can be upgraded into very powerfull upgrades at a 110 ammo. Stg feel overall better by the way and should cost a little more. Just wanted to ask what's the fought behind that?
In the same doctrine t34 cost less than a t34 produced by soviets by 10 fuel. Just for the sense of justice it should cost the same, especially that you can deploy it faster than soviets. Played only 44 with them for now.

Also Wh pioniers doctrine unit should cost a little more as they arrive with mg34 upgraded that can't be lost. Maybe 290mp?

Origineel geplaatst door Dar:

Origineel geplaatst door CoarmiuS:

Frontoviniki (T1 soviet squad) have definitly a too tight spread. It's extremly easy to wipe them in the open. They spread is only quite good in the long sandbags provided by conscripts (T0 soviet squad).

This is indeed an odd issue that shouldn't happen. I will review the formation settings and fix it asap.

Origineel geplaatst door FunnyFruit:

1. Base Medic Upgrade

2. Commander Infantry Units

3. Trenches / Emplacements

4. Tread/Wheel/Destroyed Engine critical

I appreciate the effort put into playtesting and reporting here!

1. the Medic Upgrades are a playstyle decision - some prefer an ambulance, while other prefer less micro management and just get the base medics. I will look at their cost again, but I think they are reasonably priced.

2. Could you give me an example? Are we talking about Begleit Grenadiers? Festung Mode or Regular?

3. I am not sure if infantry CAN target individual guys inside the hold. Generally, I made trenches quite strong to reflect their utility in real life. They are submerged, so a pak gun wouldn't scratch them much. Flamethrowers, satchels and bundled grenades should be good against them though. I will revisit some of their "target size" values though. FlaKs are dangerous, yes, but artillery, smoke and multiple units can easily overwhelm them.

4. I understand your concern. The "tracks broken" critical is a fun challenge in PvE, but can be frustrating in PvP. I will attempt to balance it a bit. AT guns are deadly now, but I can consider lowering the chance of an engine hit in favor or more stuns.

This will go into a balance patch later this week at the earliest, but thanks a lot for the suggestions!

Yes I'm referring to Begleit in regular mode. The Squad's firepower is extremely good while the squad members sprint by default. I simply can't find a way to handle them with normal infantry units when the AI got 2-3 of them at the beginning of the battle.

I don't know how the trenches are modified, but I got 3 infantry squads and a sniper shooting at a single AI squad in trench who just constructed it at the 2nd minute of the game and I shoot for around 45 seconds and dealt no damage to the garrisoned squad at all. This is very unusual as garrisoned squad should take at least some damage but the squad received none.

Origineel geplaatst door FunnyFruit:

I don't know how the trenches are modified, but I got 3 infantry squads and a sniper shooting at a single AI squad in trench who just constructed it at the 2nd minute of the game and I shoot for around 45 seconds and dealt no damage to the garrisoned squad at all. This is very unusual as garrisoned squad should take at least some damage but the squad received none.

I had similar situation but with flamethrower. I think it's more of a misunderstanding. The trenches with mortars, ersatz squad and MGs are more of a building like a bofors or a bunker. At least they feel that way. I killed the squad destroying a trench. If you encounter it on the trench build by you and then used by the AI then it's really a bug I think. In that case my flamethrower got the job of them really quick.

Volks and other units working in the same way, so swaping out the panzergrens, don't applay to the change of philosphy of upgrades for T1, T2, T3 units. I mean the same scale up in cost as the panzergrens were applied.

Origineel geplaatst door CoarmiuS:

Origineel geplaatst door FunnyFruit:

I don't know how the trenches are modified, but I got 3 infantry squads and a sniper shooting at a single AI squad in trench who just constructed it at the 2nd minute of the game and I shoot for around 45 seconds and dealt no damage to the garrisoned squad at all. This is very unusual as garrisoned squad should take at least some damage but the squad received none.

I had similar situation but with flamethrower. I think it's more of a misunderstanding. The trenches with mortars, ersatz squad and MGs are more of a building like a bofors or a bunker. At least they feel that way. I killed the squad destroying a trench. If you encounter it on the trench build by you and then used by the AI then it's really a bug I think. In that case my flamethrower got the job of them really quick.

Your first guess is correct. Whenever you see an Ai squad in a trench, they are part of the trench. It´s a little trick to make it seem like the AI knows how to use trenches and give players more obstacles to encounter. Any player buildt trench should be easily cleared out by Flamers or grenades. I will consider giving the AI access to those trenches a bit later in the game.

Origineel geplaatst door CoarmiuS:

HG Grenadiers cost 390 mp. A lot. Basic unit don't scale that good but they can be upgraded into very powerfull upgrades at a 110 ammo. Stg feel overall better by the way and should cost a little more. Just wanted to ask what's the fought behind that?
In the same doctrine t34 cost less than a t34 produced by soviets by 10 fuel. Just for the sense of justice it should cost the same, especially that you can deploy it faster than soviets. Played only 44 with them for now.

Also Wh pioniers doctrine unit should cost a little more as they arrive with mg34 upgraded that can't be lost. Maybe 290mp?

I am seeing a pattern here. All these units were originally designed exclusively for Festung Mode, where the rules of economy are a bit different, and ported to other modes shortly before release. I will look into rebalancing them for regular win conditions across the board.

Hello! I have one small suggestion:
How about giving the opportunity to retreat at the maximum veteran level to all “fanatical units”, like the SS-Junkers and NKVD soldiers. To be honest, although these units are quite strong in combat, their use is almost impossible due to this feature (for me, at least), and they are not so cheap that you can simply use them as cannon fodder

Origineel geplaatst door Schwarze_Husar1992:

Hello! I have one small suggestion:
How about giving the opportunity to retreat at the maximum veteran level to all “fanatical units”, like the SS-Junkers and NKVD soldiers. To be honest, although these units are quite strong in combat, their use is almost impossible due to this feature (for me, at least), and they are not so cheap that you can simply use them as cannon fodder

Ah there's no step backward for the fanaticals I'm afraid! I understand your pain though, they require quite a bit of different thinking which doesn't work well with CoH 2 muscle memory. They do move faster to balance them! I will not change anything yet, but might consider a "5 second fall-back" instead of retreat.

However, this can still cause some problems with units such as SS-Polizei Fuhrer and NKVD soldiers (again), who not only are unable to retreat themselves, but also block the retreat of all nearby units. I understand the idea, but to be honest I can’t imagine when this could be useful in a game. Perhaps, if only there was a system in mod with a spontaneous retreat of a units (under heavy fire or after heavy losses), as was the case in Kriegspiel. Don't think that I'm complaining about this because I don't know how to play properly, but it's just a pretty straightforward limitation that makes the game more dreary, not really difficult