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Rain World >  Workshop > - Sonix Yakuza -'s Workshop > Rain World: Deluge > Discussions
Rain World: Deluge
Description Discussions2 Comments110 Change Notes
saturnsei 25 Jan @ 3:27pm
Critiques
At first, I wasn't very positive about the region, but I've kinda warmed up to it a lot.
Major spoilers for the entire region ahead.
Resting Grounds has some really fun gameplay, D03 is my favorite. I actually adored the echo gameplay, because I had to survive in a single shelter , which is what Rain World is kind of built for. My biggest problem with the subregion is a few pieces of jank geometry. The hanging Outskirts Stoneheads room (A51) could have the fountain not be tilted, and instead be level so that it doesn't feel weird to walk on, and the same goes for the Stoneheads, it would be nicer if they were oriented properly, so there's no weird slope gameplay. The same goes for A47. And in the darker rooms, it's not fun to have crawlspace gameplay that isn't a straight line, because it's not very readable (especially when the layer 1 is covered). Minor nitpick, make sure to have the room attraction for Eggbugs to here Forbidden.
I genuinely adored the lizard egg room. It was insanely fun to fight them off. Minor nitpick, the camera angle's shouldn't make those things on the end of the poles go too far off layer-wise, because it makes them look longer than they should be. This happens in B01A too.
I think there's too much graffiti. I actually love graffiti in rooms, but using too much of it can be overkill. Additionally, the Three Passage Murals seem a bit off-place for what I believe is a pre-Iterator region (and if it isn't, it doesn't make sense for them to be there if it's stylistically included in Five Pebbles. The decals are good, but it just threw me off. It also often doesn't let the tiling and palette shine.
I also really liked how many custom decals there were, because it gives a lot of variance and different from vanilla. If you want me to list all of the decals that I think should be removed, hmu at dogcat24 on Discord.
You often seem to forget DeathFallFocus, which is necessary to make deathpits readable. Add this setting (found in the Gameplay tab of the DevTools menu) to all your deathpit rooms.
Forlorn Glade's NotFireBugs are poorly placed. They aren't fun to fight, and it's an unnecessary one-time inclusion. The gameplay is also generally just pretty bad here. Vultures appearing out of nowhere when there's a high chance you have no spears isn't fun.
I wish that if you took the Baby Lizard back to the Egg Room, you would gain a ton of reputation with the Lizards in the region and they'd start to leave you alone more.
EA shelter doesn't have the shelter tag, so you aren't able to sleep in it.
EA is looking like it's gonna be peak.
Conceptually, the idea of making an iterator outside the local group just doesn't work when you connect to OE. It makes more sense to connect to NSH, or maybe some other iterator (you can do whichever you want, and even make up one, but it doesn't make sense to imply it's outside the local group). It's perfectly acceptable to have an OC iterator, but it's not particularly interesting..
Iterator regions have also been kind of overdone. When you get an entire expansion mod based around iterator drama, it becomes a bit stale when it's not exclusively inside the lore pearls. Chasing Wind was pretty good with The Anchor, vibes on point, same with Struts and The MW Legs, PA, and even Intake System was alright.
The thing about this iterator is that it's called "Three Small Frogs" which doesn't really feel provocative in the slightest. Also, I've never heard of an iterator referring to animals in their name (and it's perfectly fine, and even good to have very different iterator names!) so it sounds... off, and not very vibeful. And since you're going with MSC lore for the mod, one of the broadcast iterators could be cool (though they already have designs by Faeling) or you could do one like HR, NGI, or UU.
Taming noises needed for the custom lizard.
Bouncing Ball gameplay isn't really that fun because you can't utilise them as much as normal snails.
A42 can get creatures like Scavengers stuck and it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying. I also encountered a Silver Lizard there....
(They aren't a fun creature, please find a better substitute)
The bottom of the pipes in F02 look like they're semisolid floors, I would make them... well, semisolid floors with the Invisible material. There's a similar looking platform in D02.
On the farthest left platform in C03, there should be poles. The shortcuts should be mostly removed, because otherwise it trivialises vulture gameplay. This goes for the farthest right platform, too. This sort of gameplay is pretty fun imo, and I think you should keep this motif across the region.
A45 looks like it goes farther up, but it doesn't.
There's no point to having extremely large shortcuts unless you want to communicate distance across a lot of screens.
It's easy for creatures to get softlocked in A16.
C05's middle screen should have a crawl hole on the upper left so that you don't have to go all the way to the right just to go to the left, when there's no real gameplay going on. Just crawling. Also prevents creatures blocking you.
The OESphere vents look kind of weird. I think they can work, but just to keep in mind. Maybe a custom object would look better.
All of the platforms like the ones in the Egg rooms should be like... the Segment tiles should have their triangles pointing towards the crawl holes. Additionally, to make it so that it's always like that, the crawl holes should be in every platform. Again, hmu on my discord if that doesn't make sense.
A15 lizard geometry isn't fun. Maybe you should remove their ability to tongue spears, but still let them tongue the player. Also, you should always be able to grab onto those pole end thingies, because it's normalised earlier in the region so it's weird that you can't do it now.


I'm going to make another discussion about the region structure and pathing later, because I need to make all my critiques for SLT. okay bye :steamhappy:
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
- Sonix Yakuza -  [developer] 25 Jan @ 11:59pm 
This was a lot to unpack! very interesting to hear all of this, thank you for taking the time to compile something of this level. As a first-time region creator I can admit that my room-to-room gameplay is not to the level of other creators yet, and I intend to focus on that aspect for the upcoming regions. I'm very glad you enjoyed the Nest room gameplay, as that was a later revamp as the baby mechanic was fleshed out and should be an indication of content to come.
Here's some of my thoughts to your other points :D
Firstly, I think having it be a new local group is fine because I want to have my own set of regions, and connecting it to be "somewhere off in the expanse" separates it enough from basegame where I can do my own thing but still have slugs access it easily (This was set before the TX connection). As for why it's not an existing iterator, I found that boring, I have plans for the TSF structure and lore that I prefer keeping as something I'm free to do anything I please with. I enjoy making OC iterator content in the context of it being a mod in the existing canon, as it imposes several restraints I find compelling and fun to work with. Also its just super fun to write dialogue and not worry about mischaracterization. I enjoy making original content in the confines of pre-existing canon! super enjoyable stuff.
As for the name, honestly it's not supposed to be provocative, if you read her Spearmaster broadcast dialogue, the name fits her and her characterization, with more to come with the further regions. (and honestly, "no significant harassment" and other names are just as silly, I wasn't going for a super imposing name, I found one name concept funny and stuck with it)
The graffiti is something that went over quite well with playtesters, I have no intention of changing it as it's a direct reflection to the graffiti I see in my town at almost every turn, with countless pieces of art splashed over each other.
The murals make sense contextually, as that room depicts real figures with importance to the areas. Do not think of them as passages but "titles". I won't speak further on that as its spoiler territory for the most part.
The Creamsicles are an imprint-tame only and hatching is the only way to keep one. The region is best explored with an imprinted and raised hatchling or two as a body guard, hence the brutal spawns at times haha, a bit of incentive to raise a lizard toddler despite the effort.
Overrall, I can understand many of these points, and I will be looking into the readability and traversal side of things, but I have a clear vision for my mod and other than refining it, I have no intentions of changing the cast of iterators being original, nor the use of a new local group to tell my own story in the world.
Thanks a lot for your time and thank you for playing my mod! :MHRISE_Felyne:
#1
- Sonix Yakuza -  [developer] 26 Jan @ 12:06am 
also I will not lie to you for a moment, I didn't "often forget" about death fall focus. I'm gonna level with you I have NO ideas what that is or that I should have been using it, so thank you so much I probably would have gone my entire modding career without ever touching that ever. Jod bless and thanks again for the feedback I truly appreciate the time that must have went into all of this :steamhappy:
#2
DefCynodont 30 Jan @ 8:09pm 
Little shower thought: I find it kinda weird that the region has lethal rain right next to outer expanse, I think it's a missed opportunity to have nighttime spawns, I've always thought the "safe" rain and nighttime stuff was really good at selling that you were far out in the wilds.

It's perfectly fine it if that's not what you were going for! feel free to ignore me lol, :steamthumbsup: I'm biased because I love Outer Expanse and was hoping for a region that felt like an expansion of it.
Last edited by DefCynodont; 30 Jan @ 8:35pm
#3
- Sonix Yakuza -  [developer] 2 Feb @ 1:38am 
Originally posted by DefCynodont:
Little shower thought: I find it kinda weird that the region has lethal rain right next to outer expanse, I think it's a missed opportunity to have nighttime spawns, I've always thought the "safe" rain and nighttime stuff was really good at selling that you were far out in the wilds.

It's perfectly fine it if that's not what you were going for! feel free to ignore me lol, :steamthumbsup: I'm biased because I love Outer Expanse and was hoping for a region that felt like an expansion of it.

Ooh! I can actually explain this ^^ The Outer Expanse->Forlorn Glade lethal rain + the long pipes and general "descent" is supposed to imply that this is a lower elevation to OE's thick cloud layer and once again part of an iterator facility grounds. I had intended to include the elevation lore in a pearl, but axed it for more pressing information.
#4
DefCynodont 3 Feb @ 3:56pm 
oohhh, I see! interesting!
#5
saturnsei 13 Feb @ 10:39am 
okay my second part is much shorter;

i find the shelter structures weird and some of the rooms are oddly placed. S04 seems very unnecessary along with ACESHELT and i think it would be better to remove it and A58 (or use A58 elsewhere)

S02 is also a bit troublesome to just add another shelter very near S01 and S06. this is also the problem with S04 and ACESHELT (though ACESHELT is a much smaller offender)

i'd move A27 and all of its corresponding rooms (A7, DRY, etc.) to replace S02. this also allows ACESHELT to be left in

also uhhh i would make B22 and C14 a lot longer to communicate distance (and you could add a music track in there so it doesn't feel bland)
you'd need spacer rooms though between long rooms. i figure you would make the distance about 20 screens, with 10 screens of scenery while going through a pipe and 2 screens of spacing. music makes it nice. and people greatly enjoy staring at visuals. plus you wouldn't need to worry about gameplay.

additionally random thing when you make TSF i would make a lore pearl about Frogs so it doesn't seem out of place for TSF to have Frogs in her name. and UuuUhhhh what else. idk what lore you have in mind for the name if its something like Grey Wind and Chasing Wind. Lizards existed during bennie times. maybe you could do something about frogs being extinct.

RG has like one of the best region structures out there i think, . so . thumbs. only problem is that you can miss a lot of the rooms easily (the roche and creamden section) along with forlorn glade. so. maybe segment things more so that you have to explore the whole area while you're trying to get food. (this isn't an offender in the sewer area, for example, but it's a mild offender for the roche section, but that's basically it.)

also i think i already said this but i'm personally not fond of seedbats as they just make everything easier. also swarmrooms should probably be more the focus of the region since it takes so much inspiration from alpha and i think the style of RG would work really well with batfly gameplay !!!

to make it not too easy you'd have to remove most of the fruit though, but i think that's a good thing because it makes it more ✨ fun ✨ (i love you swarm room gameplay). getting fruit is kinda boring and doesn't really add much to the gameplay, and it can fairly easily be replaced by an entrance to a swarm room, so.

a lot of the graffiti is haphazardly placed, as i said before, so areas that are more built around it would be good.

that's it, great region 👍
#6
saturnsei 13 Feb @ 10:41am 
oh also please remove msc dependency if possible,,, you can make msc dependent code which might be more annoying but i usually play with downpour off so it would be nice :3
the thing that the game got mad at is the gourmand craftable and it would probably get mad about the spearmaster thing too but hopefully it's not too big of a fix
#7
Nacu  [developer] 2 Jul @ 11:31pm 
I cannot kiss three small frogs
#8
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