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Counter-Strike 2 >  Workshop > FMPONE's Workshop > DE_SANTORINI (greybox) > Discussions
DE_SANTORINI (greybox)
Description Discussions21 Comments523 Change Notes
Pickle Rick 22 Feb, 2015 @ 6:57pm
Balance
Bit concerned that the map is going to favour CTs rather than being balanced. The CTs control all the vantage and high spots throughout the map, whilst the Ts have to battle up ground every round. Isn't there a pathway you can build to either site (eg. Mirage)? CTs should occupy every vantage position at least 1 or more seconds in advance. For those unlucky spawns when the Ts will spawn closer than the CTs, yeah ok. But even then. Ts should be habitually slaughtered every site they try to enter, every round. It's almost cs_assault-esque.

There's quite a few elements in the map that feel like Mirage (first impression was ... Mirage?!). I'm just wondering if this is part of the fleshing out period, or if Mirage has tended to be a source of inspiration. There's a bit of Tuscan at B.

I just can't help but feel sorry for any T silly enough to attack A. In the context of the terrorist, "we will (not) win".
Last edited by Pickle Rick; 22 Feb, 2015 @ 6:58pm
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FMPONE  [developer] 22 Feb, 2015 @ 9:44pm 
unremarkable, have you conducted any 5v5 real-player tests? I'm fine with speculation, it's important to think about what could happen during the course of a round, but I think it's more valuable to judge based off of actual experiences. Let me know what you think

Some things I think about: flashbangs over the walls into A site, underpass at A site, mid control and going mid to B, hopping over the mid wall as T's and attacking squeeking and window at the same time your teammates push mid, etc. I think there are theoretically plenty of options for T's, but that's the importance of testing, isn't it?
Last edited by FMPONE; 22 Feb, 2015 @ 9:49pm
#1
Pickle Rick 22 Feb, 2015 @ 9:46pm 
I'd love to if there's 9 others online who want to play. Bots just don't cut it.
#2
FMPONE  [developer] 22 Feb, 2015 @ 9:50pm 
I agree testing with bots isn't good enough since they just stack the same site. I'll add you on Steam and invite you to the next 5v5.
#3
Pickle Rick 22 Feb, 2015 @ 9:51pm 
Cheers.
#4
will 23 Feb, 2015 @ 5:21am 
From what I have experienced the CTs can practically leave B empty as it is very easy to retake (possibly because of the bridge), when we have played it it was like 3 CTs A, 2 mid/squeaky door because the rotate from mid is so fast to B for the CTs but slower the other way because of the need for a boost to get to A quickly.
maybe removal or changing the bridge (raise the wall/fence on the bridge??) would make B more difficult to retake thus encouraging CT to be a bit more present in the site?
#5
FMPONE  [developer] 23 Feb, 2015 @ 5:37am 
German, I'll keep that in mind for sure. It's very possible that you're correct about that.
#6
DpG 23 Feb, 2015 @ 7:56am 
Originally posted by GG german hackers:
From what I have experienced the CTs can practically leave B empty as it is very easy to retake (possibly because of the bridge), when we have played it it was like 3 CTs A, 2 mid/squeaky door because the rotate from mid is so fast to B for the CTs but slower the other way because of the need for a boost to get to A quickly.
maybe removal or changing the bridge (raise the wall/fence on the bridge??) would make B more difficult to retake thus encouraging CT to be a bit more present in the site?
This was my initial concern with the map as well, but I have not done any playtesting to confirm my suspicions. I noticed that you can smoke the main entrance to B from many different CT positions (for example: mid or A site). This would allow for a Banana on Inferno type situation where the CTs could keep the main chokepoint into B site smoked off for nearly the entire round, and thus allow the CTs to pay very little attention to the site.
#7
FMPONE  [developer] 23 Feb, 2015 @ 8:06am 
I adjusted the map based on those valid concerns about B site and also pro feedback about ease of smokes. Check it out :)
#8
Pickle Rick 23 Feb, 2015 @ 8:27am 
I can start up a server now if anyone wants to play test it with other people
#9
Pickle Rick 23 Feb, 2015 @ 8:39am 
Oh I like those changes a lot, really puts emphasis on mid control to properly execute on B. Still looks like it's going to be really tough to break in. Love the changes to A and the back path ala Cache. Nice changes so far, looks like it's opened up a bit. Would be good to play test and see what happens!
#10
DpG 23 Feb, 2015 @ 8:41am 
It seems like the B site is not very easy for the Terrorists to "probe," if you know what I mean. It is sort of isolated, and if you want to change your mind and go A or mid, it is quite a trek. I don't have a problem with a long T rotation between sites, but i think mid should at least be quickly accessible from B.

For example, even B on mirage (often considered the least accessible bombsite in all of counter-strike), you can probe, look for picks, make sure the CTs aren't stacking on an eco round, etc, without fully committing to the site. I feel like the way B site on this map is currently laid out, you have to more or less commit yourself in order to gain any information.
#11
FMPONE  [developer] 23 Feb, 2015 @ 8:46am 
ceLLadooR, how do you feel about the underground tunnel between B and A? I understand it doesn't completely resolve your concerns, but wouldn't it provide a relatively fast rotate if things go sour at B?
#12
DpG 23 Feb, 2015 @ 8:53am 
Originally posted by FMPONE:
ceLLadooR, how do you feel about the underground tunnel between B and A? I understand it doesn't completely resolve your concerns, but wouldn't it provide a relatively fast rotate if things go sour at B?
The path from B to lower A is great, but it's only 1 option. I don't think people would like HAVING to go lower A if things don't work out at B. But again, I haven't actually playtested it, so my sense of timing could be off here.
Last edited by DpG; 23 Feb, 2015 @ 8:55am
#13
Pickle Rick 23 Feb, 2015 @ 8:56am 
Rotation from lower B to upper A isn't that long though, to where the double doors used to be.
#14
DpG 23 Feb, 2015 @ 9:00am 
Originally posted by unremarkable player:
Rotation from lower B to upper A isn't that long though, to where the double doors used to be.
you're probably right.
#15
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