Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

Lex Talionis II
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Praetorian  [developer] 13 Jul, 2015 @ 4:37pm
General Discussion and Questions
Title says it all. A thread for general discussion and questions so that you don't have to use the main page with its lack of quoting and limits on post size.
Last edited by Praetorian; 13 Jul, 2015 @ 4:38pm
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Showing 1-15 of 56 comments
Praetorian  [developer] 15 Jul, 2015 @ 8:33pm 
@Kael
When Henry VIII began his religious reforms the Church certainly wasn't weak in England. It owned about about a quarter of the land of England if you count the monasteries. The pope's power in the country was limited, but the Church was quite powerful. It was his reforms that greatly weakened the Church, including taking most of its land and putting the Church under the monarch. This is already in the mod. There are two dissolution of the monastery decisions that take Church lands, and becoming Protestant will also reduce the clergy's lands as well.

So requiring a weak clergy in order to pass the Act of Appeals or Act of Supremacy probably wouldn't be good. But you're correct that they should lower the opinion of the clergy significantly.
Kael Mahariel 16 Jul, 2015 @ 1:57am 
@Praetorian44
I didn't say a weak clergy was a requirement, but you have many decisions with multiple possible requirements, for example high royal authority and ADM skill can make up for a low AE when passing many decisions, and as such I thought it would make sense that if the king didn't have much authority, a possibilty for still passing the Act of Appeals or Act of Supremacy without having a strong monarch would be for the clergy to be weak, maybe you could add that the nobles must like you as well or something. In Henry VIII's case he would be then the high royal authority alternative.
Praetorian  [developer] 16 Jul, 2015 @ 3:52am 
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
@Praetorian44
I didn't say a weak clergy was a requirement, but you have many decisions with multiple possible requirements, for example high royal authority and ADM skill can make up for a low AE when passing many decisions, and as such I thought it would make sense that if the king didn't have much authority, a possibilty for still passing the Act of Appeals or Act of Supremacy without having a strong monarch would be for the clergy to be weak, maybe you could add that the nobles must like you as well or something. In Henry VIII's case he would be then the high royal authority alternative.
Multiple possible requirements would probably be a good idea for this decision. By the way, I have added the foreign noble marriage in a sense. I still need to add the action to arrange a marriage with a foreign noble, but everything else codewise is in the mod. Currently the foreign noble marriage has another purpose as well. Quoted from our change log-

"Added a new type of marriage, marriage to a foreign noble. If your spouse or your heir’s spouse is displaced from the line of inheritance in their home country then you’ll get an event stating this, and if their family was overthrown then the event will state that as well. Whenever spouses are displaced and thus you no longer have an opinion modifier with their home country (whether it be from a new dynasty taking over or simply because their sibling has succeeded to throne and thus they are no longer the ruler’s child), then your spouse will be marked as a foreign noble. Prior to this change, they were either killed or existed in a sort of limbo depending on the situation, since they weren’t a domestic spouse but they also weren’t tied to a foreign country anymore. Now this will no longer be the case. We also plan to add a feature that allows you to arrange a marriage with a foreign noble that isn’t part of the royal family, but that’s not yet in the mod."
Kael Mahariel 16 Jul, 2015 @ 7:02am 
Originally posted by Praetorian44:
Multiple possible requirements would probably be a good idea for this decision. By the way, I have added the foreign noble marriage in a sense. I still need to add the action to arrange a marriage with a foreign noble, but everything else codewise is in the mod. Currently the foreign noble marriage has another purpose as well. Quoted from our change log-

"Added a new type of marriage, marriage to a foreign noble. If your spouse or your heir’s spouse is displaced from the line of inheritance in their home country then you’ll get an event stating this, and if their family was overthrown then the event will state that as well. Whenever spouses are displaced and thus you no longer have an opinion modifier with their home country (whether it be from a new dynasty taking over or simply because their sibling has succeeded to throne and thus they are no longer the ruler’s child), then your spouse will be marked as a foreign noble. Prior to this change, they were either killed or existed in a sort of limbo depending on the situation, since they weren’t a domestic spouse but they also weren’t tied to a foreign country anymore. Now this will no longer be the case. We also plan to add a feature that allows you to arrange a marriage with a foreign noble that isn’t part of the royal family, but that’s not yet in the mod."

Sounds awesome, would add a lot of flavor if there was also an event tied to it where you could spend like 6 months of income and a year of manpower or something to support pretender rebels of the dynasty you were married to in the country, like supporting their claim back to the throne, and if you succed you get improved relations and royal marriage again, but no idea how difficult that would be to code, the event should be easy, pay money, pay manpower -> pretender rebels spawn in country associated with, but is it difficult to make the pretender rebel be of the correct dynasty and for a royal marriage to spawn at the end of the event?
Praetorian  [developer] 16 Jul, 2015 @ 10:57am 
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
Sounds awesome, would add a lot of flavor if there was also an event tied to it where you could spend like 6 months of income and a year of manpower or something to support pretender rebels of the dynasty you were married to in the country, like supporting their claim back to the throne, and if you succed you get improved relations and royal marriage again, but no idea how difficult that would be to code, the event should be easy, pay money, pay manpower -> pretender rebels spawn in country associated with, but is it difficult to make the pretender rebel be of the correct dynasty and for a royal marriage to spawn at the end of the event?

We couldn't make the pretender rebel be the correct dynasty. But what can be done is set a flag, and if the rebels win with the flag set then the mod will appoint the ruler that we want (i.e. a ruler of the displaced dynasty) and create the royal marriage. However, this feature could be made a whole lot better if we wait until after porting 1.13, as that patch adds the features that I requested.

FYI, these new features will allow me to save rulers and heirs for later use. So you can imaging the utility of this code. It was one one of my most requested features. I've got to play with it a bit since it was actually added in 1.12, however the code is broken and makes it so that you can't save the game after using it. 1.13 fixes this issue
Kael Mahariel 16 Jul, 2015 @ 11:39am 
Originally posted by Praetorian44:

We couldn't make the pretender rebel be the correct dynasty. But what can be done is set a flag, and if the rebels win with the flag set then the mod will appoint the ruler that we want (i.e. a ruler of the displaced dynasty) and create the royal marriage. However, this feature could be made a whole lot better if we wait until after porting 1.13, as that patch adds the features that I requested.

FYI, these new features will allow me to save rulers and heirs for later use. So you can imaging the utility of this code. It was one one of my most requested features. I've got to play with it a bit since it was actually added in 1.12, however the code is broken and makes it so that you can't save the game after using it. 1.13 fixes this issue

Oh my, this sounds like one of the most awesome features they could add for a dynasty oriented mod, there are just so many possibilites, I can imagine it fixing a lot of problems and introducing new creative opportunities
Praetorian  [developer] 16 Jul, 2015 @ 12:37pm 
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
Originally posted by Praetorian44:

We couldn't make the pretender rebel be the correct dynasty. But what can be done is set a flag, and if the rebels win with the flag set then the mod will appoint the ruler that we want (i.e. a ruler of the displaced dynasty) and create the royal marriage. However, this feature could be made a whole lot better if we wait until after porting 1.13, as that patch adds the features that I requested.

FYI, these new features will allow me to save rulers and heirs for later use. So you can imaging the utility of this code. It was one one of my most requested features. I've got to play with it a bit since it was actually added in 1.12, however the code is broken and makes it so that you can't save the game after using it. 1.13 fixes this issue

Oh my, this sounds like one of the most awesome features they could add for a dynasty oriented mod, there are just so many possibilites, I can imagine it fixing a lot of problems and introducing new creative opportunities
Yes I have quite a few plans for it and I'm excited to be able to use it with the next patch.

I don't know if you're on the Paradox forums, but I just released the latest version of the mod there. Steam release won't be until tomorrow. Steam is such a hassle to update on that I want to ensure that there aren't any major bugs.
Kael Mahariel 16 Jul, 2015 @ 12:56pm 
Originally posted by Praetorian44:
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:

Oh my, this sounds like one of the most awesome features they could add for a dynasty oriented mod, there are just so many possibilites, I can imagine it fixing a lot of problems and introducing new creative opportunities
Yes I have quite a few plans for it and I'm excited to be able to use it with the next patch.

I don't know if you're on the Paradox forums, but I just released the latest version of the mod there. Steam release won't be until tomorrow. Steam is such a hassle to update on that I want to ensure that there aren't any major bugs.

I tried, I followed the link on the main page here on steam where the download link is suppossed to be, but I was met with this message, even when logged on the forum account "You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action."
Kael Mahariel 16 Jul, 2015 @ 1:07pm 
One question by the way, what is the reasoning behind removing Venice and Sevilla as and end trade node? With the English Channel being the only end trade node, at least of any interest in Europe I notice that in every game Venice gets raped due to a lack of money which was their only strength as Austria quite often rivals them and attacks and Castille and Portugal are even less expansive than before letting France go on a blue blob streak of immense proportion, also England becomes a naval power that just rules the waves no matter how hard any of the other AI nations try
Kael Mahariel 16 Jul, 2015 @ 1:16pm 
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
Originally posted by Praetorian44:
Yes I have quite a few plans for it and I'm excited to be able to use it with the next patch.

I don't know if you're on the Paradox forums, but I just released the latest version of the mod there. Steam release won't be until tomorrow. Steam is such a hassle to update on that I want to ensure that there aren't any major bugs.

I tried, I followed the link on the main page here on steam where the download link is suppossed to be, but I was met with this message, even when logged on the forum account "You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action."

Nevermind, I figured out what I had done wrong
Praetorian  [developer] 16 Jul, 2015 @ 1:51pm 
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
One question by the way, what is the reasoning behind removing Venice and Sevilla as and end trade node? With the English Channel being the only end trade node, at least of any interest in Europe I notice that in every game Venice gets raped due to a lack of money which was their only strength as Austria quite often rivals them and attacks and Castille and Portugal are even less expansive than before letting France go on a blue blob streak of immense proportion, also England becomes a naval power that just rules the waves no matter how hard any of the other AI nations try
End nodes are stupid and inaccurate. I would remove them all if I could, but unfortunately that isn't possible. It seems that Paradox has simply resorted to using end nodes as a boost to any country that did well in the period.

It makes no sense to have Italy as an end node. Italy was the gateway into Europe for eastern goods. Venice brought the trade in (mostly from Constantinople), profitting substantially from that, and then it moved along to the rest of Europe. In vanilla's trade model, the only way for eastern trade to move to Europe is if an Eastern European power conquers the Balkans, which historically didn't happen until after eastern trade was already taking a different route to Europe (around Africa).
Praetorian  [developer] 16 Jul, 2015 @ 1:59pm 
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
One question by the way, what is the reasoning behind removing Venice and Sevilla as and end trade node? With the English Channel being the only end trade node, at least of any interest in Europe I notice that in every game Venice gets raped due to a lack of money which was their only strength as Austria quite often rivals them and attacks and Castille and Portugal are even less expansive than before letting France go on a blue blob streak of immense proportion, also England becomes a naval power that just rules the waves no matter how hard any of the other AI nations try
Sevilla being an end node was even more nonsensical, and it seems that even Paradox realized that since they changed it.

Regarding Venice, if they keep their trade bonus in Constantinople and don't lose too much land in North Italy, then I've noticed that they make substantial trade income. They may need a few buffs trade wise, but they're really not bad at all. The main issue is that caravan power is too powerful. It has been nerfed quite a bit in the mod, but still seems to draw too much trade out of Venice.
Kael Mahariel 16 Jul, 2015 @ 1:59pm 
Originally posted by Praetorian44:
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
One question by the way, what is the reasoning behind removing Venice and Sevilla as and end trade node? With the English Channel being the only end trade node, at least of any interest in Europe I notice that in every game Venice gets raped due to a lack of money which was their only strength as Austria quite often rivals them and attacks and Castille and Portugal are even less expansive than before letting France go on a blue blob streak of immense proportion, also England becomes a naval power that just rules the waves no matter how hard any of the other AI nations try
End nodes are stupid and inaccurate. I would remove them all if I could, but unfortunately that isn't possible. It seems that Paradox has simply resorted to using end nodes as a boost to any country that did well in the period.

It makes no sense to have Italy as an end node. Italy was the gateway into Europe for eastern goods. Venice brought the trade in (mostly from Constantinople), profitting substantially from that, and then it moved along to the rest of Europe. In vanilla's trade model, the only way for eastern trade to move to Europe is if an Eastern European power conquers the Balkans, which historically didn't happen until after eastern trade was already taking a different route to Europe (around Africa).

I understand the concept of what it is mean to symbolise, but the effect is that Venice isn't a rich trade power nation any more and instead easy pickings of those around it as trade was there one big power, and even with the end node they often got destroyed by all their surrounding enemies (I can't actually name a game where Venice hasn't been reduced to only a few provinces without me holding their hand or playing them myself), instead the English Channel becomes imensly overpowered, a friend of mine made a custom nation that started only in London whilst I took control of all of Venice, he still earned 5 times as much as me in trade at the start, which to be honest feels wrong realism wise that the italian tradenodes are so weak compared to the english one. I feel the vanilla way of using trade nodes are more realistic, the trade nodes simply show where the local produced goods are heading, and in fact they did end up as an end node in Venice, as when they reached Venice it was Venice that made full payout for all the wares, whilst as you can see in other non end trade nodes the payout is more split and a lot of payout escapes as it is pushed onwards towards more mercantile nations that know more how to properly benefit from trade
Kael Mahariel 16 Jul, 2015 @ 2:03pm 
Originally posted by Praetorian44:
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
One question by the way, what is the reasoning behind removing Venice and Sevilla as and end trade node? With the English Channel being the only end trade node, at least of any interest in Europe I notice that in every game Venice gets raped due to a lack of money which was their only strength as Austria quite often rivals them and attacks and Castille and Portugal are even less expansive than before letting France go on a blue blob streak of immense proportion, also England becomes a naval power that just rules the waves no matter how hard any of the other AI nations try
Sevilla being an end node was even more nonsensical, and it seems that even Paradox realized that since they changed it.

Regarding Venice, if they keep their trade bonus in Constantinople and don't lose too much land in North Italy, then I've noticed that they make substantial trade income. They may need a few buffs trade wise, but they're really not bad at all. The main issue is that caravan power is too powerful. It has been nerfed quite a bit in the mod, but still seems to draw too much trade out of Venice.

I checked the game and at the start of 1444, trade value in the english channel was at 18 and in Venice at 8, that means that the English Channel is worth 3 times as much, and the English Channel has way more potential as the Venice trade node actually goes there, since well, everything goes there as it is the only end trade node in the area. And yes, Venice can earn a lot if they survive, but that is a big if, especially with how Austria, Milan and Hungary loves to rival them and team up, their only saving grace is France being friendly towards them, so they rely on France early inheriting Burgundy
Praetorian  [developer] 16 Jul, 2015 @ 2:10pm 
Originally posted by Kael Mahariel:
Originally posted by Praetorian44:
Sevilla being an end node was even more nonsensical, and it seems that even Paradox realized that since they changed it.

Regarding Venice, if they keep their trade bonus in Constantinople and don't lose too much land in North Italy, then I've noticed that they make substantial trade income. They may need a few buffs trade wise, but they're really not bad at all. The main issue is that caravan power is too powerful. It has been nerfed quite a bit in the mod, but still seems to draw too much trade out of Venice.

I checked the game and at the start of 1444, trade value in the english channel was at 18 and in Venice at 8, that means that the English Channel is worth 3 times as much, and the English Channel has way more potential as the Venice trade node actually goes there, since well, everything goes there as it is the only end trade node in the area. And yes, Venice can earn a lot if they survive, but that is a big if, especially with how Austria, Milan and Hungary loves to rival them and team up, their only saving grace is France being friendly towards them, so they rely on France early inheriting Burgundy
Really? I'm seeing very different numbers for Venice when I play (though those numbers do look accurate for the Channel). Venice is usually worth about 10-11, but Venice holds most of the power thus a lot of that goes to them. While the Channel is worth more, England only makes about 40% of the profit and the rest goes to the Netherlands.

I agree that the Channel's wealth isn't accurate for the start of the game, but there has to be at least one end node and the Channel makes more sense then Italy. And the problems with Venice being attacked aren't related to the nodes IMO. That has to do with the AI not valuing having a merchant republic bringing in the wealth. Thus AI attitude should be adjusted.
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