Crusader Kings II

Crusader Kings II

Fantasy! Adds Elves, Dwarves, Dragons, Magic & More!
Silverain 17 Sep, 2015 @ 6:34am
Dracon Specific Feedback: experiences after 70 years in game
I've placed this here rather than in the Suggestions thread so people can reference the Dracon stats and because this covers more observations during play than suggestions at this time.

Dragon FeedBack

Stats

Dracon Stats at this time

Monthly Mana: +0.10
Martial: +3
Learning: +3
Fertility: -20.0%
General Opinion: -5
Personal Combat Skill: +4
NONE: +100.00 (Not sure what these do)
NONE: -100.00
Vassal Opinion: +5
Same Trait Opinion: +25 (Makes sense that Dragons respect other Dragons)
Opposite Trait Opinion: +25 (Can't find anywhere this applies at this time)



I've notice during my play though that in general Dragons seem very susceptible to illness and quite a few were dying in infancy or the late teens even when there is no major outbreaks of disease in the area.
In addition I've noticed that female offspring seemed far more likely with 4 girls to each boy in my Empire

If you intend to keep dragons immortal I recommend perhaps increasing the breeding penalty by an extra 10% but give them a health modifier?

As a side note I did an experiment with the Ruler Designer before I knew dragons were immortal and made a breeding monster with 100% fertility with the addition of Strong, Lustful and Hedonist and at the age of 72 I have 25 heirs.[mega.nz]

Units

Dragons are amazing expensive and powerful, they seem to be only defeated by moral attrition and a single dragon is worth approximately 800-1000 men depending on who is leading the army and its composition.

By spending 500 Mana your character can transform into a Dragon which grants a retinue of a single dragon and replaces the Dracon Trait with the Dargon Trait:

Dragon Stats at this time

Monthly Mana: -10.00
Martial: +10
Diplomacy: -30
Fertility: -1000.0%
General Opinion: -100
Personal Combat Skill: +30
NONE: +100.00 (Not sure what these do)
NONE: -100.00
Vassal Opinion: +100
Same Trait Opinion: +25
Opposite Trait Opinion: +25


Events

None of the regular Decision events such as Summer Fair and Hold Feast are available at this time.

New Create kingdom and Empire events and both grant extra prestige than their regular counterparts.
Empire event values need to be changed as currently the Ruler requires to hold 27 County titles directly which is near impossible without risking rebellion due to penalties, I would recommend changing this to 4-5 Kingdom titles.

Eat a prisoner is currently over powered granting no downsides and gaining 100 Mana, not even the penalty with the kin of the executed person. (Which I assume is a bug)

I recommend expanding event with some negatives such as it causing additional 15% revolt risk penalty rather than a vassal opinion penalty to represent peasant adventurers coming to slay you. The duration of this penalty I'm guessing should between 1-5 years.
This could be expanded with additional options for a cruel or gluttonous ruler to add a further 50 prestige but with the penalty increasing to 20-25%


List of existing Decisions which could be added to Dragons:

Raise Runestone
Hold a Feast

I've ideas for custom events in the future but for now I'd rather help sort out the basics.

Culture

Dragon Culture is very simple and only grants the Ruler the ability to Raid infidels for loot.
I would further improve it by adding the benefit of been able to raise Runestones, even if not Germanic religion.

Religion

Currently labels itself as Dragon_DESC

Grants:
Martial: +2
Personal Combat Skill: +1

Priests (Temple Holders) can inherit titles
Priests can marry
Women may own Temple Holdings
No opinion penalty against female rulers and heirs
Vassals do not mind if levies are raised
Rulers can marry close kin to improve vassal opinions
There is (and can exist) no religious head

There are no Holy Sites and you seem to count as possessing all often at the same time, starting moral authority is 20% making it difficult to convert and easy to be converted. This might be to balance the very advantageous religion.

The Custom religions are often converted quickly early game due to low religious authority, however since holy wars can be declared easily (for Dragon anyway) you can quickly gain authority through brute force means.

I currently do not know if the Zoroastrian bonus to limit the effects of inbreeding has been applied, for reference children born from a Zoroastrian incestuous marriages have:
5 times less chances than normal to get the inbred trait.
but 5 times more chances than normal to get the lunatic trait.

I noticed in my game that many of my children with the Genius trait were also gaining the lunatic trait even when born from non incestuous marriages.
The only further improvement I can recommend is that if cross-breeding is not added for Dragons then allow concubines for Dracon rulers, this will allow us to raise our chance of an heir with a second wife and kidnap Princesses for prestige

Any other Dragon players out there who want to help add a bit more to this in depth or have observations?

Edit: Formating, remembered dragon transformation.
Last edited by Silverain; 17 Sep, 2015 @ 7:54am
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Showing 1-5 of 5 comments
Dissent 17 Sep, 2015 @ 7:36am 
I don't have a problem with the immortality. In-fighting and duels seem to happen more frequently with dracons and acts as a limiting factor. I played two runs with them and got murdered/slain in combat by the age of 60 both times. As with all the other races, inter-species mating really needs to be a possibility to allow for the seduction path to be possible.
Silverain 17 Sep, 2015 @ 7:42am 
Originally posted by Dissent:
I don't have a problem with the immortality. In-fighting and duels seem to happen more frequently with dracons and acts as a limiting factor. I played two runs with them and got murdered/slain in combat by the age of 60 both times. As with all the other races, inter-species mating really needs to be a possibility to allow for the seduction path to be possible.
Slightly different experience to myself, I found humans loved to attempt to duel me but other dracons were relatively peaceful towards me.
The new equipment especially the Assassin Blades have made me very wary of duels.

Did you use the turn into a Dragon ability at all?
I found that the bonus wasn't really worth the cost except in a desperate situation.
Dissent 17 Sep, 2015 @ 7:58am 
Originally posted by DoominaBottle:

Did you use the turn into a Dragon ability at all?
I found that the bonus wasn't really worth the cost except in a desperate situation.
I used it once out of combat just to test it, but I was testing out the "bang everyone else's wife" strategy w/ diplomacy/intrigue builds, so I wasn't leading my armies. You can eat prisoners for a mana boost in order to balance the cost.
oyubi 19 Sep, 2015 @ 2:37am 
I can answer a few of the questions OP.

1) The two stats that say NONE:100 are to make the AI build to become feudal if its a tribe. They do nothing when a human is controlling that character.

2) In relation to having lots of daughters. This comes up a lot with the vanilla game as children's gender is hardcoded. People on the forums normally say its just an anomaly and the chance equals out to 50/50 eventually. The mod doesn't change anything.

3) Turning into a Dragon is more useful because the 1 unit army you get is strong enough to go raiding and wipe the floor with any european army until at least the 1066 start. Its also good for duels since it gives massive combat bonuses.

4) Dragons get the close-kin marriage mechanics as do elves.

5) Eating someone isn't set to do anything other than kill them and give mana. It should probably annoy the persons family but no one else would care. Dragons are expected to take a princess as a prisoner and kill everyone else they capture.

6) Kids dieing of disease a lot could be two reaons.
i) Dragons can only breed with other dragons. Anything else and the kid dies.
ii) Once your population takes off disease becomes more common. This is a mechanic from the main game designed to stop overpopulation slowing the game down. Dragons are probably especially prone since they'll have lots of immortal courtiers.
Silverain 23 Sep, 2015 @ 7:04am 
Originally posted by oyubi:
I can answer a few of the questions OP.

1) The two stats that say NONE:100 are to make the AI build to become feudal if its a tribe. They do nothing when a human is controlling that character.

2) In relation to having lots of daughters. This comes up a lot with the vanilla game as children's gender is hardcoded. People on the forums normally say its just an anomaly and the chance equals out to 50/50 eventually. The mod doesn't change anything.

3) Turning into a Dragon is more useful because the 1 unit army you get is strong enough to go raiding and wipe the floor with any european army until at least the 1066 start. Its also good for duels since it gives massive combat bonuses.

4) Dragons get the close-kin marriage mechanics as do elves.

5) Eating someone isn't set to do anything other than kill them and give mana. It should probably annoy the persons family but no one else would care. Dragons are expected to take a princess as a prisoner and kill everyone else they capture.

6) Kids dieing of disease a lot could be two reaons.
i) Dragons can only breed with other dragons. Anything else and the kid dies.
ii) Once your population takes off disease becomes more common. This is a mechanic from the main game designed to stop overpopulation slowing the game down. Dragons are probably especially prone since they'll have lots of immortal courtiers.

1) and 2) These were very educational Thanks for the info.

3) I thought it would be useful for the early game bonus but unless your getting lots of prisoners it can be very costly, I am face palming I never thought of using it for duels though.

4) Thanks for the confirming that.

5) Until the disapproval by the persons family is implemented it is still very powerful at this time.

6) I figure out the first one a while back and actually use it as a way of wiping out rival families, the second point however is new to me and would explain alot.
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