Men of War: Assault Squad 2

Men of War: Assault Squad 2

A World At War "Competitive Multiplayer Mod"
ewt.strat29  [developer] 7 Mar, 2016 @ 1:36pm
Upcoming Patch Discussion 1.66 (balance)
Balance Patch to 1.66 -

Note CP amounts not including the crew

Finish elite marksman 165 mp from 135mp
France elite marksman 155mp from 160mp

France - 4SP Arty Filloux now 3SP and now does not share timers with any other SP.
France - 1SP mortar now has the timer of a 2SP unit.
France - 5SP chemical gun is now 4 SP.
France - 6SP dual 155mm arty 5 SP
France - 9SP Grand pussaince is now 8 SP.
France - S35 is now 320mp from 350 mp.
France - Lorraine 47 is now 200 mp From 230 mp
Reduce CP of S35 and b1bis by 4
France - Reduce to CP for ft17 to 2 from 8
France - Reudced CP of vickers 93 to be same as English 3.7
France - Reduced CP of TOG


GER pak43 20 cp from 25
GER pak40 12cp from 15 cp
GER pak38 8 CP from 10
GER Panzer3f 8cp from 15 cp.
GER panzer N 10 cp from 15 cp
USA reduced CP of m1 to 8
USA reduced CP of M5 to 12 from 15.
USA jumbo 870mp from 1000mp
Removed hun paradrop ammo to fix crash

♥♥♥ - Marine tank 3SP has proper timer
♥♥♥ - chemical gun now 3 SP
♥♥♥ - Veteran 75mm lowered CP by 5
♥♥♥ - Ho Ni 1 - 300 mp

HUN At rifle 65 mp from 55 mp
BCOM and ENG assault squad 105 mp from 110 mp

ITA - reduce price so m10525 105 spg to 750 from 1000
ITA - Afrika Corps reduced in CP, infantry in vehicles cost no CP.
ITA - reduce CP of 3SP tank hunters
ITA - greatly reduced CP to ALL cheaper medium tanks and tank destroyers
ITA - Brix mortar 260 mp from 280 mp
ITA - reduce CP of 4SP Adra
ITA veteran m9053 6 SP removed 2 elite infantry
ITA kar grenade rifle 30 mp from 35 mp

China - Removed 2 conscript from conscript squad
China - Removed timer share between 1 SP units for uprising. Changed start timer to 240 (2 sp)
China - Fixed timer for m3 halftrack to double and increased price to 150 mp.

Eng - Firefly 750 mp from 800 mp
Eng - mk4 churchill 600 mp from 650 mp.
Bedford 40mm 320mp from 330 mp
Bcom India carrier 140mp from 150 mp
Bcom boyes gun carrier 120mp from 130mp

*Reduce Price of light mortars for all nations by 40mp. 280 from 320.

Bcom - challenger a30 760mp from 800mp.
Ostwind 390 mp from 400mp
iszuzu 20mm 230 mp from 240mp
isuzu mortar 300 mp from 325 mp
CP of bcom stuart 5CP from 15cp

*Reduce CP of some Arty (CP not included crew)
Long tom 10 cp From 15 cp.
Bishop 10 cp from 15 cp
m7 priest 10CP from 15 CP
ho-ro 10 cp from 15 cp
hato 10 cp from 15 cp
ho-i 8 cp from 15 cp
m12 15 cp from 20cp
bl6 15 cp from 20 cp
pdr25 10 cp from 15 cp
lefh18 cp from 10 cp
sfh18 10 cp from 15 cp
155mm mle197 5cp from 10 cp
105 mle1913 2 CP from 5 CP
D1 15 cp from 20 cp
m30_1938 10 cp from 15 cp
m114 15 cp from 20 cp
m2a1l 10 cp from 15 cp

*Increase infantry killer cost across the board.
170 from 145 , 13mm hotchkiss fra
230 from 200 , amr35-13mm Fra/chn
oerlikon 200mp from 170 mp
lrdg 20mm 240mp from 230mp
mkvib vickers 13mm 230 from 190 mp.
Crusader AA 20 mm 320mp from 300mp
flak38 200mp from 175mp
222 250mp from 230 mp
luchs 270mp from 250mp
t60 290 mp from 270 mp
20mmScotti 185mp from 175mp
m10525 20 CP from 30 cp
Type 2 20mm 190 mp

*Reduce CP of some tank destroyers (cp listed not including tank crew)
5CP from 10cp Lorraine 47
7CP from 10CP hell cat
t48 6pdr 7 cp from 10 cp
achillies 8 cp from 15 cp
archer 4 cp from 10 cp
Slugger 8 cp from 15 cp
marder 8 cp from 15 cp
Nashorn 15cp from 30 cp
jagdpanzer 12 cp from 30 cp
japgdpznther 15 cp from 30 cp
elefant 15cp from 40 cp
Toldi I 270 mp from 250mp
Csba39m 250mp from 230 mp
zrinyi1 20 cp from 25cp
stug 12 cp from 15 cp
Ho ni 2 - 5 cp from 15
honi 3 - 5 CP from 10cp
Chi ri 15 cp from 30 cp
ho ri 15 cp from 40 cp
Ho ni1 7 CP from 15 cp
SU122 7 cp from 15 cp
ISU 152 20 cp from 30 cp
bt7a 8 cp from 15 cp.
Wolverine 8 cp from 15 cp
Wespe 10 cp from 15 cp
hummel 15 cp from 20 cp
Sdkfz4 15 cp from 20 cp
nebel 15 cp from 20 cp
jagdtiger 20 cp from 30 cp
sturmtiger 20 cp from 30 cp
marine tank 8 cp from 15 cp
150mm mortar 10 cp from 15 cp
m7518 5 cp from 10 CP
m7532 8 cp from 20 cp
m7534 10 cp from 20 cp

*Reduce CP of some Medium Heavy tanks (cp listed no including tank crew)
Centurion 20 cp from 30 cp
churchill_mk_vii 20 cp from 30 cp.
Panther 22 CP from 30 cp
tiger 22 cp from 30 cp
king tiger 25 cp from 40 cp
kv85 20 cp from 25
is1 20 cp from 30
is2 20 cp from 30
Su76 2 cp from 10 cp
Su85 5 cp from 15 cp
ISU122 10 cp from 30 cp
su100 10 cp from 30 cp
Churhill crocodile 20 cp from 30 cp.
Avre 20 cp from 30 cp
black prince 22 CP from 35cp
kv2 25 cp from 30 cp
is3 25 cp from 35 cp
203mm 25cp from 40
jumbo 76 20 cp from 30 cp
Super pershing 25 cp from 40 cp
tortez 20 cp from 40 cp
t95 20cp from 40cp
Tog2 20 CP from 30 CP
Pz3f 8 cp from 15 cp
pz3/n 10 cp from 15 cp
Last edited by ewt.strat29; 12 Mar, 2016 @ 3:02pm
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Bzura 7 Mar, 2016 @ 2:35pm 
So regular mortars cost the same as 20mm vehicles. Both fall into the category of infantry killers, but mortars can also counter other emplacements. Infantry killers can also counter their light vehicles. I will be interested to see what players will get. I think we might see mortars in the middle and late game more but still infantry killers in the early.

You mentioned that there is a counter system to 20mm vehicles, like Stuart but apart from a Stuart and maybe T-70 I can't think of anything else. What is a counter system for mortars and is this mortar counter system affodable and viable? It's never been too easy to counter the Japanese mortar without driving it over with a HT.

One banned exploit should be AT-rifling the mortar. This exploit is just gay and we might as well make mortar 0 CP to make it fair.

All in all, I think I like the cost of infanty kilers, at least on paper. It looks like players have a choice between sub-elite infantry or 20mm emplacement and 20mm vehicle, mortar or elite infantry.
Last edited by Bzura; 7 Mar, 2016 @ 2:37pm
ewt.strat29  [developer] 7 Mar, 2016 @ 2:42pm 
I feel the counter of mortars is just infantry. Mortars are very slow to make any impact on the field..If someone sees a mortar, especially early.. they will have 2x squads or so to rush it and destroy it. Same cannot be said about charging a 20mm. well the small calibre mortars that is. It would be a test anyway, that would hopefully encourage more chjoices. but yep out of all the choices in your last paragraph, mortar seems like a slowest impact unit in the current meta.

If you look at the rules on the challonge site, yep exploits are banned.
Last edited by ewt.strat29; 7 Mar, 2016 @ 2:51pm
Bzura 7 Mar, 2016 @ 2:58pm 
There is one thing we could look into: 1SP infantry spam. I think it's quite a potent strategy and makes nations with no 1SP infantry struggle a bit with it, and they might struggle with it a bit more after the 20mm nerf.
Thompson 7 Mar, 2016 @ 9:52pm 
so LMGs were already good in vanilla, you are making them cheaper and more powerful ?
ewt.strat29  [developer] 7 Mar, 2016 @ 10:44pm 
Originally posted by Thompson:
so LMGs were already good in vanilla, you are making them cheaper and more powerful ?

Hmm i think that statement may differ alot dpeending who you ask, I will review this further with other players but the majority I am finding do not agree with that statement so far. Only you and Toddesser are on the pro MG fence at the moment. Thouhg i couldn't have a indepth discussion with Todesser to understand the reason behind his opinion because of the language bearrier.

My personal opinoin is it depends which LMG, sure elite mg for gemrany is great. But I find no one buys the normal single MG or regular squads much if ever. It is a attempt to try get people to do it more often. It may definately change the meta to slow things down, but I think the increase is extremely small and we probaly still won't see much MG's buying on the field is my guess. But who knows.
Also I know we have to be careful because autocannons are nerfed, and this is one of themain reason mG's are useless. Now there are potentially less auto cannons on the field and later.. t might not be worth increasing the dmg, though it is tiny

Looking for more opinions or examples!
Last edited by ewt.strat29; 7 Mar, 2016 @ 10:49pm
Bzura 8 Mar, 2016 @ 10:47am 
I looked at the screen of the special units and I am not sure if it's up to date but I have some observations:

1) USA looks really strong with Croc and Fury tank. Maybe even too good. USA don't need to buy tanks for MP at all. Sherman 76 is a no-brainer buy anyway. Why not give them something less obvious like one of their TDs which is used less like Hetzer, which you gave to Germany.
2) KV-1 for Finland for 5SP, the same as the Churchill for UK? I think it is 4SP unit like the BCOM churchill.
3) The UK's Royal Arti is never ever bought. How about removing one of the guns and reducing it to 4SP.
4) Germany has a Panther, but Soviets still have only KV-2? Maybe give them other option like IS-1 or KV-85?
5) French mortar for 1SP? A bit too low IMO. Should be 2SP. When you got French 20mm and mortar at the same time in game against Simmers it didn't look right.
Last edited by Bzura; 8 Mar, 2016 @ 10:58am
ewt.strat29  [developer] 8 Mar, 2016 @ 3:55pm 
1) hmmm perhaps, they are extremely underplayed right now. I would like to see them used more. This one I will keep a eye on in this tournament.
2) the KV-1 for finland is actually a beast, its a modified version which i believe has prettymuch the same side armor as the frontal. With allied gun peentration its almost invincible all around other then vs radio op.
3) true, I may do this. I will see how it fits with other SP. I'm also not a fan of dual gun buys or dual anything. Though I have reduced the CP and timer of royal arty in the mod, which probaly hasn't been noticed.

4) True, they do have the kv-1 flame now. KV-2 is back in it's glory and CP is reduced. 180 range but 6 SP. I kinda think it's fine to not have it symetrical in this case.
5) True, I agree i put it as 2 SP originally. Though everyone thinks france is horrible, they need buffs. Not sure if I am over doign it... But I have given alot of buffs in the next patch as you can see above with ARTY SP. Making it 2SP will make it non buyable as you can wait for 3 SP for a Arty. hmmm I would like to alos see how this goes in the tournament. It oculd be one of those things where this is france's go to... May not match in price, but will give them a advantage somewhere. .. hmmmmmmmmmm
Perhaps a timer instead to make it only buyable at 2SP time so it comes out later??!
Last edited by ewt.strat29; 8 Mar, 2016 @ 3:57pm
ewt.strat29  [developer] 8 Mar, 2016 @ 3:58pm 
Originally posted by Thompson:
so LMGs were already good in vanilla, you are making them cheaper and more powerful ?
Doing some testing in 1v1, and perhaps you are right. I am slightly swayed that MG"s are fine. The elite tier Mg's are really nuts. Para s etc.. just the regular mg is not usually great
Bzura 8 Mar, 2016 @ 6:47pm 
I think reg lmg should not be that great, that will give another reason to buy paras or elite.

I also don't like units like mass production but I really like combo SP units like bonzai. Are there any other SP units like that?

Mortars are better than M8 so I am not sure if they should have the same CP. A timer might be a good solution. 1SP but at 6 minutes.
Last edited by Bzura; 9 Mar, 2016 @ 11:08am
Thompson 9 Mar, 2016 @ 10:24am 
reg LMGs should definitely not be that powerful, since they are bought even from the start where you have no real counter to them, the only way is if you happen to find an angle where you can throw a grenade. But if you'll find yourself at a man-disadvantage because those LMGs are so cheap and powerful then it's impossible to do.

LMGs will slow down the game and make vehicles more important much earlier, and we all know the vehicle combat is pretty random at early game.

With powerful LMGs, at later game you'll have less of that back and forth gameplay.

LMGs + elite marksmen have great synergy too that is not explored enough.
Last edited by Thompson; 9 Mar, 2016 @ 10:26am
Bzura 9 Mar, 2016 @ 12:46pm 
There is a good reason why it is poorly explored: everyone would rather give the LMG to a marksman rather than let them work together.

I agree with Thompson. The stenght of low tier should be spam, whilst t3 and t4 should be lethality.
Last edited by Bzura; 10 Mar, 2016 @ 1:15am
ewt.strat29  [developer] 9 Mar, 2016 @ 2:18pm 
I understand the issues, there are some viable openings with MG at the start that is for sure and may slow down the flow of the game. The marksman will be getting bad stats on MG.
I will take off the buff in the upcoming patch shortly. It's more of a issue with regular squads.. it is probaly that some assault squads are too cheap? some regulars to bad?

What is your opinion on this?

I've never remebered a 1v1 game where I see someone buy a regular squad. I don't even know when I last called it.. probaly in AS1
Bzura 10 Mar, 2016 @ 1:32am 
I can't remember buying regs either, maybe for USA in AS1, but in AS2 USA marksmen messed up a lot of things: not only they made the USA regs a very poor buy, but also they counter easily the strongest regs like the German one.

Having said that my favourite Germany's opening in AS1 was single MG-42 + Assault Sq. . I don't really bother with LMG in AS2. For me it was marksmen and assualt squad spam until an early infantry killer. And I think this is the general meta we see.
Bzura 10 Mar, 2016 @ 2:57am 
I kind of miss my AS1 Germany tactics. I felt like they were not that far from the authentic infantry tactics where you need to position your LMG team intelligently so that your assualt team can get close to do the dirty work.
And then I installed AS2 beta and I got into this brainless German assault squad spam, followed by marksmen spam.

To me, a game which is entitled Assault Squad should focus more on authentic infantry tactics at a squad and platoon level. A squad ussually can be split into:
1) Recon team, the closest to recon section we have in game is marksmen team, they have light weapons, high speed but I would make them 3 men and give them additional 10m of line of sight and some slight stealth.
2) LMG team is kind of our useless regular squad or a bit more usefull a single LMG. I would create a proper LMG team with LMG and 2 riflemen as ammo bearers and price it a bit more then the single LMG. I think the cool down for this unit should be about 3mins.
3) Assualt team, which is our assualt squad. I would make them 6-8 men strong, could be faction specific like (USA 6 men but Soviets 8 men). A good mix of smgs and rifles and nades, but I would reduce nades for the next squad:


4) Combat Engineers: 2 SMGs and 2 rifles and flamethrower (AT rifle). Lots of TNT, AT nades and maybe some AP mines as well.

The ussual support for platoon is a AT-weapon team and 2inch mortar. We already have AT infantry but I kind of could imagine a very mobile two men strong light mortar team with 10-12 mortar rounds and 80 range. ( I think I have seen some light mortars in some mods).

Here I kind of can see some infantry tactics where I need to intelligently choose and use appropiate teams in order to achieve some synergy. I could open with a fast recon team to get to a position fast and maybe slow down the enemy until my assualt team arrives to a position. Then, when making an assualt I could use recon and LMG/2 inch mortar to weaken the enemy before my assualt team get them.

In urban area or trenches, combat engineers would come really handy.

T3 and T4 I would not change much as I see them as special, independent forces.


As a quick fix I would remove the squad leader and 2 riflemen from the regular squad (this is one of the reason I dislike reg squad: I need LMG and not a tonne of useless riflemen) and remaining riflemen should receive more ammo. The price should be 150% of the single LMG. It would give them more defined purpose in game: stay back and provide covering fire for assualt squads. LMG teams, like I mentioned before, could do with a 2-3 mins timer.
Last edited by Bzura; 10 Mar, 2016 @ 3:20am
ewt.strat29  [developer] 10 Mar, 2016 @ 3:32pm 
i really want to improve the dynamic between squads. I think elitemarksman and assaults are clear now.. in dynamic. But.. regularss no. I'm not sure about your first suggestions they are a huge change to the make up of squads.

Right now I am quite happy with elitemarksman and regular squad dynmics .. they are very different in use in the mod.
RE your last idea, I'm not sure on that idea as they would be just a cheap mans elite MG call?
Last edited by ewt.strat29; 10 Mar, 2016 @ 3:52pm
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