(recommenting first impressions)

XQsME ♔Assist♔ 18 Dec @ 12:33pm
Hey hey, Im trying out your map and i like it - i really do, it has some sort of nuke/overpass lay-out but with a facade feel to it (WHICH IS AMAZING imo). But I feel like your map is very CT sided; A site travel time is (ct-t) 7-10 and B site is 10-15; making it so that Ts HAVE to try going b first bc of the defensive advantages of A (shadow boxes -under heaven- heaven + CT cross (corridor to A, B vent, ladder to heaven, alley). I feel like Ts have a chance of they rush B and smoke / flash the CT defender on courtyard (outside to B ) but the travel time there is also CT sided; 8-11. Which concludes that CT clearly have the advantage on the pistol round. I REALLY LOVE THIS MAP THOUGH!!! perfect lay-out, just the chokepoints should be closer for Ts - also love that both sides have multiple AWPer possibilities (CT should max have 3 (2fav) while T max 2 (1fav)) Id like to continue helping you with this map if you want :) would love to play this map some more w/ actual people. DM me, regards from Belgium :D

Traveltime should always be CT sided.. CT should be able to get in position before T arrives. Also I think it's cool if CT can decide to rush and meet T on a further chokepoint. Idea of standing on A at dust2 or rushing long to double doors.
Anyway I really love the criss cross of the map. Also the way u could defend B from A bombsite. It has a lovely new creative dynamic. U should be playing this map in competetive mode to find out what u have to improve! Also XQsME remember that if CT do peak/rush they take a huge risk of dying.
Tho one point of critism.. in my opinion the rotation points trough the vents from A to B and B to A are too quick. I prefer having boost points for that or maybe a drop which takes abit longer. In general I am not a big fan of vents so that may be it aswell :)

this map won the cevo+reddit mapping contest - it's unfortunate the workshop is super buggy lately https://www.mapcore.org/articles/special-events/congratulations-to-our-finalists-and-grand-prize-winner-de_empire-r70/

I agree on the vents Mr.R, at least one should be altered so that the quick shortcut doesnt go unnoticed and or without any risks. I also know that CT should arrive first on site BUT I find a full 5 sconds on Ts on B site a bit much (that 1/3 faster - thats HUGE) I wouldnt really make a 'problem' out of it if it werent that Ts dont really have any coverage rushing on the sites OR that there is too much to smoke of (im thinking of the view from heaven on A site) while CT on A site for example still have the box under heaven (which i refer to as shadowbox) PLUS the boxes directly on the left when coming from CTcross- i THINK (should play more with other people to find out) that A site has a bit of an unfair cover partition. i feel like Ts are best of trying to flash/smoke courtyard (outside to B) to go B OR try to go alley, win the skirmish with the CT defending it and trying to flank from behind to A or go down to B (which makes the vents for CTs really good) if i were to change anything on the map it would be the cover on A (just give the Ts a small box to work with). As CTs they should just put; 1 def on alley, 1 on courtyard, 1 heaven, 1 on B to alley and one in A-B vent: what im trying to say is that the map is CT sided in the way that they have the pistol advantage, not only that, but that it is waaay much cost efficient frag wise for CTs they can defend the whole flow of the map with 2 smokes (minimum) as where the Ts already need 3-4 smokes and a few flashes to even make it on the bomb sites. This can actually be solved with the implementation of a 'connector' and IF it were implemented the bigger question would be "where?"

who (dis)agrees (and why)

I got lost reading into all of that without pictures, but something that caught my eye; are you saying T's can make it to B in 5 seconds before CT ?? This map encourages some team tactic. The game play is so simple, but there are so many options available to execute. It is pretty balanced. I think both vents could be considered a 'connector' - I would much rather take either outside route to rotate, but if you must be quick then the vents are the way to go.

???? you clearly havent played the map yet and or read the previous comments my friend :p i mentioned before that my measurement was CT-T so if i say 10-15 that means CT=10 T=15, of the top of your head you should also know that CTs ALWAYS arrive on sites first (as MR.R and I repeatedly mentioned). Also: a vent can connect something doesnt make it a connector - example: MIRAGE has ladder to window and window to jungle or kitchen -> THESE ARE CONNECTIONS BUT NOT CONNECTOR. A connector is defined by a "average alley"* which usually creates a blind spot if one of the CTs prevails at his position/call out (if no one is taking mid/window Ts can easely overrun A by using Connector): my point is, you CANT hold vents, you can cover them, but you cant hold them, there will be no map crossfire through vents.

*2 to 2.5 models width

please read and or make sure you know what you're talking about before dropping a comment

"This map encourages some team tactic. The game play is so simple, but there are so many options available to execute" you've just described Counter Strike

again: comment like "i really like this map" are not needed, this a tread trying to discuss the strategical lay-out of the map (if you havent played CSGO a lot or have no experience with mapmaking, there's a big chance your comment is useless to this tread)

Man I need a tutor like your self to teach me. I just like this map. can cover something but can't hold them... sounds like an aim problem to me.. but again im pretty dumb compared to you I guess. sorry about that

Firstly overall this is a well-made map as far as the “r_drawclipbrushes” go - which I’ve not found any bugs or glitches for yet - and the general lay out is pretty unique, I don’t have very many issues with the map except that it is fairly CT-sided.

The first point I’d like to make is that CT’s get to every important point of the map first and I know that they’re meant to get to sites first which is fine but not letting them get to any point first makes the map CT-sided, for example when you are the terrorists and you running towards B going through the ‘East Lot Entrance’ that part of the map shouldn’t be contested at all by CT’s but if you still want to keep it you’ll need to make it quicker for T’s to get to it. I suggest making a pathway through the two doors at T-spawn down to the ‘East Lot Entrance’ or even push the spawn further forward so that they get there first to give them at least one uncontested way into B.

The second point I’d like to make is that if T’s win at long/’West Lot Entrance’ they don’t gain any different entrances into either site, they could of just got to that site entrance using a different path safely avoiding long altogether. My solution for this is you could bring the door at long B over to the left more so that a different part of the site is showing therefor making contesting for long have a point, and you should also consider getting rid of the vent and ladder because it just causes confusion to the maps lay out.

I have to disagree on a few points there Anton, but I do agree on the 'East Lot Entrance' or as i refered to as 'Courtyard'. it actually IS! good to go long and take on the 'West Lot Entrance' or as i refered to 'Alley' you DO get something out of it- even two things; first you gain the best entrance to B site (due to cover but mostly angles) AND you get to what i refered to as 'CT cross' which totaly takes on A by flanking and hitting CT on there where it hits them most. As if it (it= ct cross) served as a Connector (like Ive mentioned before) but without the ath connecting effects of a Connector. Heaven and vent useless ???? Id say no, heaven is interresting but should be a risk based on the lay out of the map (which isnt the case right now) and I kinda agree on the fact that ONE vent should be removed- that is if a decent 'Connector' should be placed. -> Just place an entrance from T's mid which leads to ladder/heaven (meaning that A is best contested in fast paced rushes but that CTs still have the possebility to contest B if B site gets overrunned by Ts.

Im convinced that by reducing the time for Ts to get to 'Courtyard' (short / B) with 2 seconds and placing a 'Connector' parallel to 'Alley' (long / A) would remove all the 'problems' i personally have with this map ... and maybe remove one vent to keep it balanced (**remove vent to CT cross and place a box on the upper side of the ramp at A site vent**)

Yeah maybe my changes were slightly drastic although I still think some changes should be made to the mentioned areas. I really hope that someone can get a server set up dedicated to play testing this map because that is the only way we can all agree on the balance issues/changes :)

Can you get us a server ham5 ??

casual no problem... but I would rather get a 10 man competitive match going... connect csgo.tehwebz.net in console... type !empire in chat (only the first person there can do this no one else can be on the server)

Originally posted by ham5:

casual no problem... but I would rather get a 10 man competitive match going... connect csgo.tehwebz.net in console... type !empire in chat (only the first person there can do this no one else can be on the server)

where is the server based ?

same place this map is

And where is that ?