Thank you for your feedback. You were probably the only one out of 7 experienced mappers in mapcore, who managed to clearly mention about greyboxing advantages. I can't argue, helicopter is not the best fit in my map, but it does the job done (I only need is to make a collision model for it) and for gameplay it doesn't do much. I limited the movement around it with playerclips, to avoid any OP positioning. I will probably need to re-model or slightly change that helicopter, so it would fit my map more, but for now, I don't have the skills to do it. I'm just beginning to learn modelling. I could try to make a new helicopter, but I'm afraid, that I will not be able to do it (even though I'm an artist in real life), in 3d programs it just seems very complicated. As for the gameplay, It's a high risk/reward position. As for my layout, I think it's great (sounds probably arrogantly), but please hear me out. I made every path way with a reason. All unneeded places were sealed off in v0.03. I already did about 9 competitive (5v5 obv) high skilled (from dmg to global elite) play testing matches. On latest versions, there was even 3 matches, which ended up in 15:15! In v0.12 I did only one game, but I wasn't playing seriously and people who were playing, were not using all the possibilities, which my map has to offer (still ended up in 16:13). I don't want to simplify my layout, I want players to have freedom in movement, many decisions to choose from (as every better pathway, has it's price).

As for textures, I have slightly different point of view. Overtime I have learned new painting skills and have realized that adding basic colors first is the best option as this lets you see what is missing or needs to be improved for later development. I made the same thing in my map, added the basic textures, to see how my map will feel like. Also, it was for players, as I think not many would like to participate in matches on a map, which is only grey and boring. Most people will not understand it and greyboxing my map, won't give my any possible advantage, as I already know my map's layout perfectly, I know how my map will look in the future, what needs to be fixed and I'm fully aware of the angles, which my walls has. Previously, all of the walls, there with some angle to it, but I changed them to 90 degrees there it fits, to make it more easy for source engine, also for players to through the grenades.

Currently, my map is already as simple as possible and I'm not afraid to recreate any part of my map. I'm planning in this week to rebuild apartments, as making that building I wasn't experienced enough and left some unnecessary brushes. Library's look will change dramatically, I already have the look on which I'm going to. Everything you see currently, is just bare bones of my map, to help to shape out the layout for good and balanced game. As I already stated in description, my map is only in beta version, that means it's really not finished. I also warned them, that the only part of my map, which I could call mature enough is the gameplay (layout). I didn't even start working on the visuals.

My map still got rejected on mapcore, as it doesn't meet the requirements and I highly disagree with the choice of admins. https://www.mapcore.org/topic/17116-mapcore-csgo-playtesting-40/?page=83 last message by RealaxFourX (that's my other nickname). RZL seems very arrogant in his decisions... I don't know. Probably none of those mappers, could point out something about my map's part, which is very bad for the gameplay, but still they are misjudging my map and accepting other maps (I can even link you, how they look), in which gameplay seems so dull, so unfinished and empty... I took a lot of risks in making the layout of my map and I'm quite happy with the end result. Maybe source engine is the only one, who gets the most pain, but I will still be reducing the amount of numportals in my map, optimising it as much as I can.

Feel free to leave any criticism, just please, be more straight forward about what is/could be a problem, as you currently stated, for example in layout, but didn't mention the exact thing (only helicopter area).

I'm still thankful for your concern and feedback.

I submitted my first map de_farm two years ago on mapcore playtest. I was sure that my layout was pretty much perfect as I had planned it well and thought every corner in it.

Against any odds RZL accepted it to playtest even when it was textured, blockwork wasn't very good, theme was pretty bad, etc.. The playtest went very badly.. Nobody liked the map and most of people more like hated it.. One dude said "I feel like I'm in a cartoon. I don't think mapping is for everyone"

So you can only imagine how devastated I was after the playtest. I hated the whole community for a while. I tried to fix the map and submitted it on mapcore for few times but the result was always the same.

My friends liked the map and we played it quite a lot and they thought it was pretty good. And I thought it was very good. Also de_farm was on reddit community night and I got good feedback about the map and most of ppl like the map.

I kept working on the map and last christmas it was on mapcore playtest again and the result was the same as always. They didn't like it as much as other ppl. Why?.. Mapcore is community of mapmakers. Most of them are professional level designers or environment artists. They know what they are talking about and they don't judge differently csgo maps that are made by amateurs.

But... early in january I decided to start the map again from the start and to do it like mapcore ppl would prefer it. Now the layout is finished and it's a lot better than the old. But it's also very different. In fact.. it's so much different that it's not anymore farm but farm2.

So.. I know why you think your map is good already. Still..

Maps are hard to evaluate. When you play for example wildfire operation maps it's very likely that you don't like some areas or some maps. They feel just cramped or not good. Sometimes you just don't know why it's bad, it just is. Most of mappers' first maps are like this. They seem odd. Sometimes it's scale, sometimes it's textures and sometimes something else. Like your map. It's good for a first map (is it actually even first map? but diagonal walls, scale and layout generally seem a bit odd.

Anyways.. Whether you change it or not is up to you but since guys on mapcore say you should, I advice then same.

Good luck with it.

Yes, cs_market is my first map I have ever made. I did like a small test map before it, to understand how to ues the basic functions in hammer, but it was like good 10 months ago, so I had to remember and learn a lot of new things. I feel sorry for your map. Have you tried to submit de_farm2 to playtesting in mapcore?

None of the mappers, in mapcore, mentioned a specific problem in my map. They just said to re-texture, change the models to brushes. Also mentioned, that my layout is random and not in order, even though it is not true. So what should I do? Okay, let's imagine, I re-texture my map, I remove all models and replace them with brushes, what's next? I already know the gameplay of my map, I don't have anything to change. As many players, who have played, the majority really liked it. Some people dislike it because of it's openness, but It will be fixed after I add detail to my map. Also, markets in real life, aren't very narrow in size. And I still don't feel, that their judging is alright, because they accept maps, which as I stated below, seems super dull, both in gameplay and visuals. In my map, gameplay is in much higher level, than oakwood for example. But probably thoes experienced guys "see" something different, strangely enough, they can not name exactly. It is really sad. Anyways, we will see, whose map will be the best and whose is the most experienced one. ;) I'm up to the challenge and I don't have anything to lose.

De_farm2 has been tested by mapcore 3 times.

I really look forward to see how your map goes further :)

Thanks. I asked for tophattwaffle's opinion about my map. He said, that the biggest problem is my layout. There is a poor brush work (but I will fix it in this week), also stated that slightly rotated walls don't help at all. None of the experienced mappers, who judged my map, haven't played my map at all. I doubt that they even play hostage maps at all. As I did a lot of gameplays and only comp on my map, I think my layout works. So there isn't any problem. :)

Deleted my comment, s h i t map

Deleted my comment, s h i t map

Hmm.. dunno what you have wrote m8, but if your comment had as constructive message as you have wrote here, I'm not surprized.

Hello Trajan. Some more few things and suggestions to stimulate your creativity.

One thing I'd like to add is that a map to be accepted by Valve needs to work with 32 slots. This is required. No need to panic, lol. Its not a big deal. I do have plenty experience in big servers with 32 plus slots and 1 thing i've learned is the game doesn't change much.
32 is the default from valve. I still remember when 1.6 was released and most of the LANs, in Brazil at least, did not migrate from 1.5 because some maps wont work in 1.6. The problem was the slots...people needs stots to play and The LAN was a bussines. The slots problem limited the maps that could be played.
This is to be accepted by Valve. To be popular it will need 40 slots!

Another thing is you could add a map(just like the PIC u have on the description here) on the base CT and TR. This would perhaps only be for the period of development of the map.
Add arrows on walls showing directions...only a couple. To have a better learning curve...

One thing that bothers me is that there is a few locations where the shot does not pass through. This questions must be watched by CT perspective only because CT is the team that has the objective to do. TR is only defending.
When the CT has to cover a great distance, it is advisable to attach a cover in the way and preferably that the bullet does not pass through especially if there is an AWP position behind.
For the TR team this would only be important near the hostages where they could not retreat.Or yet to counter attack some specific positions...some fine tune of the map. Anyway this is something to do after some matchs.

I wrote a long message and my PC restarted ... wtf.

I noticed all the modifications.
Opening the building in front of the wine shop I liked but this adds strength to the side of the CT. And the position was already very favorable to the CT.

Map is still full CT side.

CT Perspective, Attack Team

They tend to go through the library because the access ramps to the wine store are positions where players have to walk a great distance without cover. So they tend to go the other way. Just see an uncovered position to change direction.

Perspective of TR - defense team

The correct way for the terrorist team(as it is) would be to put 2 players inside the library, one covering the entrance of the base by the library, one in the outer transition and another covering the two ramps.
Too weak to hold any CT team with a minimum of team play.

There is a concept of the defense that you are not adding in this map. You did with the table...
At Aztec you can see what im talking about.

There is an lack of shooting positions from TR side. The bridge is a classic example of shooting position where the attack team(TR in that map) must use some equipment to pass and the defense could not hide.
Add shooting positions to TR and let CT spend some equipment to pass.

1 thing is hide and another is a shooting position where you have, like at the bridge, 6 different shoting positions at that location.
That boxes outside the library was a shooting position, a very good one. Those boxes need to get back.

The transition, like i said before, is impossible so what is happening is when CT win one side, the other side from TRs cant backup at all because take too long to reach there.
The TR base is out of the game. There are no reason at all to CT even to try to get in since takes too long...
Maybe that wine shop hostage could be at the second floor but i also dont like the stairs to that floor.
A window at the second floor(to awp) that could shoot the car and the mid boxes BUT when the CT reaches the ramp is safe from this position...but not from the market(Italy style) that youll add in front of the wine shop :)
Remember, that openned building made the position better to CT but youve add nothing to TR side.
Shooting positions...
the CT have to spend equipment.

Getting good!

I'm not a fan of the ladder at T Spawn. Here's my feedback:
1. It can result in unintentional fall damage or slowness on the player because of the way ladders work in CSGO
2. Ladders are designed to go both ways, and there is no reason to rotate through T Spawn, as it costs too much time.
3. Ladders in CSGO don't work well and should only be used if absolutely necessary.

I would recommend removing the ladder and replacing it with a box that would negate any fall damage from the dropdown.

Yes, ladders are a bit buggy, but those are very usable for CTs attack, faking and for Terrorists rotation. It helps the timings a lot. Now one smoke will definetely be enough for library so other side players can rotate to library. The fall damage is currently 2 hp, I don't think it makes a lot of difference, especially if you want to take full archway control. -98 or -99 damages happen very rarily, I also think it's even possible to take archway while going a bit slower like 0.5s or so without any fall damage. But I will try to add something that drop could be used without any damage.

It's a great map overall and it's very fun to play. The map is fairly CT sided I think, as the rotation times are really long. By the time the Terrorists rotate, the hostage is probably already rescued. I love the architecture of the map because it's simple, but it looks very very nice for a greybox map. Even though this map is in greybox, it looks very pretty, and the visuals/theme don't neglect the gameplay. All in all, I'd give this map a 9/10 for barely any cons except for the long rotations and hard to hold angles from T side.

Watching the gameplays of the map I felt like it's more of an AWP map than something else, it doesn't has props like boxes or something to make those large and straight parts of the map less "snipering".