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Controller's Crux
Description Discussions1 Comments25 Change Notes
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Astute  [developer] 22 Jan, 2016 @ 1:50pm
"Controller's Crux" Stats
Welcome to the discussion page for the Medic melee-replacement, the "Controller's Crux". Here I will go into greater detail about the stats I came up with for this weapon. Feel free to cheer/jeer this, or add your own ideas to the pile.



Controller's Crux


Level 7 Cross

On Hit: Knocks back the target
+15% critical knockback
-20% damage penalty


The theme here is distance and space. Whereas most Medic melee weapons provide some sort of bonus for a Medic playing risky, or benefiting from a risky scenario, this melee idea revolves around creating breathing room between the Medic and his assailant. Simply put, it's a means to push away strong foes who have come in hoping for an easy kill while the Medic is fleeing.


On Hit: Knocks back the target
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When the Medic lands a hit with the cross, he will knock back his target. The the knockback effect would be the same strength as the FaN in knockback, though without the self knockback. I realize that this knockback strength metric is somewhat hard to gauge, so it's likely somewhere between a critical hit's knockback strength, and an airblast.

This effect also extends to invulnerable targets, such as ubercharge or Bonk. This effect does not affect targets immune to knockback(Quick-Fix).


+15% critical knockback
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A somewhat obscure bonus. Normally, when a critical hit is landed on a target using a melee weapon, and it does not kill, it inflicts knockback. This bonus simply adds a small amount of knockback to the critical hit for the cross. It makes the critical hit of this weapon catapult enemies further than normal.


-20% damage penalty
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Due to the fact that the weapon is intended more for manipulating the target rather than killing, there is a damage penalty. I chose 20% because it seemed like a decent number(other melee weapons use this amount). It could go lower, if necessary.



As a disclaimer, since these stats helped influence the design of this item. There is no demand, of Valve or the TF2 Team, that they be accepted or implemented. All time limits and percent values are adjustable. I'm also well aware stats on items do not get accepted, this is merely here for community discussion.
Last edited by Astute; 22 Jan, 2016 @ 2:06pm
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
Shesh paT 23 Jan, 2016 @ 1:36am 
it should have something like controllable crits
Something like :
Add 100% crit against players with <50% health
and -50% critical damage

Or instead of -50% critical damage you can add, maybe -50~100% attack speed, so med would not be able to just kill everything like w+m1 pyros :D


Hmm, or maybe make it do no damage with crits, but add +150% critical knockback...
Ok i don't know anymore, Valve still dgaf about weapons in workshop like 1 year :/ (i mean NOT reskins)




And no random crits ofc.
Last edited by Shesh paT; 23 Jan, 2016 @ 1:36am
#1
Masked Rodent, CEO 23 Jan, 2016 @ 6:08am 
Pros
+10% resistance to explosives and bullets while held
+15% critical knockback
+5% knockback

Cons
-20% damage penalty
-Weapon destroyed when hit with fire

Neutral
+When weapon is destroyed,you get a 10 second ubercharge and speed boost
+5 second crits when weapon is destroyed
-30 seconds for weapon to recharge
-Of course,no melee weapon for medic for 30 seconds

(If overpowered,remove speed buff)
#2
Dozo 23 Jan, 2016 @ 2:11pm 
On Hit: Knocks back opponent
This weapon has a large melee range (Eyelander range)
-25% damage penalty
No random critical hits

Based on your own idea.
#3
(matratze) 23 Jan, 2016 @ 4:33pm 
when active:
+30% Damage resistence
+25% faster switch to speed
-15% less Damage
-holsters 50% slower
#4
Dèlila (out of practice) 26 Jan, 2016 @ 12:57pm 
On hit: push enemies back
Alt-fire: Hold to use as a sheild to grant 50% damage resistance (ends when you stop holding)
+20% faster weapon deploy
Weapon can not be fired while guarding (sheild)
-30% damage penalty
No random cirtical hits

Basically an escape weapon when your patient dies and you need to get out of there.
Last edited by Dèlila (out of practice); 26 Jan, 2016 @ 12:57pm
#5
(matratze) 26 Jan, 2016 @ 1:01pm 
how the hell is knockback on a melee a pro?
#6
Masked Rodent, CEO 26 Jan, 2016 @ 1:49pm 
Originally posted by Festivized:
how the hell is knockback on a melee a pro?
Imagine that your opponent is near a cliff
RIP
#7
Astute  [developer] 26 Jan, 2016 @ 2:19pm 
The more I look at this weapon, the more I like the idea of it being a shield(an actual shield, not like the demoman's). Blocking damage might actually be a worthy mechanic for the Medic, though I wonder if having him run out in front of his teammates instead of healing would be a worthwhile investment. He'd probably be better suited to healing and ubercharging. Who knows, back in old days, no one could have guessed Demoman would become a pure melee fighter when his update hit. He got a sword and shield, and no one really questions it now.

Increased melee distance is also a neat idea, though I wonder if you would notice it given how buggy hit detection is with lag.

@Festivized, It helps to not think of this as a melee weapon, and more of a melee tool. For example: the Escape Plan, Atomizer, and GRU. These weapons give the user an extra means to flee, but aren't necessarily suited for direct combat. The knockback provided let's you disorient or stall close range attackers, hopefully with enough time to run away or duck around a corner. You might think of it as a very limited point blank airblast for the Medic, but without all the other benefits.

And of course... launching people to their deaths.
#8
Shesh paT 26 Jan, 2016 @ 2:47pm 
Originally posted by Astute:
The more I look at this weapon, the more I like the idea of it being a shield(an actual shield, not like the demoman's). Blocking damage might actually be a worthy mechanic for the Medic, though I wonder if having him run out in front of his teammates instead of healing would be a worthwhile investment. He'd probably be better suited to healing and ubercharging. Who knows, back in old days, no one could have guessed Demoman would become a pure melee fighter when his update hit. He got a sword and shield, and no one really questions it now.

Increased melee distance is also a neat idea, though I wonder if you would notice it given how buggy hit detection is with lag.

@Festivized, It helps to not think of this as a melee weapon, and more of a melee tool. For example: the Escape Plan, Atomizer, and GRU. These weapons give the user an extra means to flee, but aren't necessarily suited for direct combat. The knockback provided let's you disorient or stall close range attackers, hopefully with enough time to run away or duck around a corner. You might think of it as a very limited point blank airblast for the Medic, but without all the other benefits.

And of course... launching people to their deaths.
Then...
It should have stats like :
+2 hp regen per. second
-10% heal rate
-15% ŭbercharge duration
-No random critical hits
On wearer :
+Healing a teammate charges a barrel. After it get's fully charged (to get a full charge you must heal 350 hp) pressing alt-attack button will activate large shield (from MvM).
(P.S THIS shield would not do any damage to enemies it touches. It'll just push them away instead.) Shield works only 5 seconds and has a 350 hp (it can be destroyed) after 5 seconds after deploying it'll block any 1 incoming attack (it can be rocket, or minigun's bullet for example)

#9
Tester 26 Jan, 2016 @ 4:38pm 
+ On Hit: Bleed for 5 seconds
- Increase in push force taken (like the Shortstop) while active.

If it looks like you're going to die after being ambushed, bust this melee out, hit the enemy once, and jump; the increased knockback from the enemy will send you flying away and the enemy will still be bleeding, allowing for a hit and run or to get out of harm's way while your partner goes for the kill. Also great for spy-checking; the Crusader's Crossbow is the only medic weapon that can spy check well and spies are one of the biggest worries of medics.

On the downside, you flying away in a straight line can be an easy shot for bullet-based weapons and where you land may spell death for you, so the stats are balanced to me.
#10
Ducky Quackington 28 Jan, 2016 @ 2:21pm 
I agree with your stats, but maybe more range? The weapon looks bigger so a little tiny bit more range too?
#11
Pffty 29 Jan, 2016 @ 10:01pm 
I'd say add more range, decrease the weapons overall damage and make the weapon fire slower when being hit, similar to the strings being cut.
#12
Marcie 31 Jan, 2016 @ 8:29am 
Pros
N/A
Cons
its a fokin religous cross
#13
Pffty 2 Feb, 2016 @ 2:30pm 
Originally posted by Ghost:
Pros
N/A
Cons
its a fokin religous cross

Pros
Its a fokin religous cross

Cons
N/A
#14
Sadeka 22 Feb, 2016 @ 6:51pm 
+ 5% Knock back on hit
+ 15% Knock back on crit
- 40% Damage penalty
- 10% Switch Rate

While holding RMB, Medic takes a defensive stance, taking 50% less damage from melee from the front, 25% less from all ranged sources from the front (Cause honestly, it's not much of a shield for ranged attacks)

OR

+ 5% Knock back on hit
+ 15% Knock back on crit
- 20% Damage penalty
- 50% from push forces

OR

Amputator reskin.

As a medic main, I find myself running a lot once my team dies, taking out the amputator (amputator is life) to regen quickly and maybe live through the 9000+ bullets, rockets, etc aimed at me. The knockback is useful, but that would make it very effective with the crossbow (more damage for farther opponents + no strafe for first push force makes easy aimed shot). The first concept is taking the shield idea, though I'm partially against it for lacking in the concept agreement department. The second idea comes from my ability to avoid a lot of damage as medic by flying around with the rockets, airblasts, atc. I know the man treads make this better for soldier, but for a fragile class like medic, the knockback resistance leaves you unable to dodge consecutive rockets and such. The third is because amputator is life:owhero:. All seriousness though, it'd make a ok amputator reskin, the taunt wouldn't make as much sense unless changed.
#15
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