Echoing this. Needs to exist. Leave timer durations to other mods and let us tweak our own timers that way. The true concealment aspect is the winner here, anything extra makes this mod less desirable.

Agreed. I wouldnt mind another module that has the authors recommended turn timers, but the driving factor behind this mod is the concealment effects.

Thirded. I really hate how the aliens are prepping to destroy intel that they don't even know I'm after.

Agreed too. Just wanted to turn that mod on. Because it kind of bothered me that their is allready a timer going when the aliens don't even know i'm there yet.

So that original true conealment just would hit that sweet spot for me. I can see why the author made the timer changes thoug,hso not to be a kind of a "cheat" but it realy whould be kinda sweet to have timer changes modular to this and keep "true concealment" ..true :)

I would love to see it as an option

"Echoing this. Needs to exist. Leave timer durations to other mods and let us tweak our own timers that way. The true concealment aspect is the winner here, anything extra makes this mod less desirable."

Entirely my opinion

Definetly agree to remove the reduced timers as it can be accomplished by a seperate mod

+1 instant install if reduced timers are removed

I'm going to play with this regardless, but I agree, best leave the specific adjustments to other mods or have an open configuration with recommendations. The "True Concealment" idea is golden on its own.

I would like to toss my hat into this, and give it a hopeful optiont to have.

I would highly recommend giving the mod a shot as-is. The game is fairly well balanced even at higher difficulties with the timer as-is (except in some of the edge cases) and I wanted to retain that pressure with concealment stopping the timer. The vanilla timers + this mod would make things a bit too easy.

Also, this mod does work with other mods that alter timers if you feel like you need a bit more room to breathe. This mod already is a bit of a timer mod (just inserting my own logic right around where the game decides when the timer should tick), so that's why I threw in the reductions for the sake of balance. Also the reductions are less harsh than they seem, because in the base game the first turn you take when you enter the mission counts against you. Hence 12 and 8, rather than 13 and 9.

But I do appreciate all the support! I didn't expect a simple mod like this to become so popualr.

Two mod flavors/an option to keep the reduced timers, please. Honestly, the reduced timers are the only reason that this mod caught my attention. The default timers hamper strategy, but lengthening or out right removing the timers make the game laughably easy IMHO. I know other mods can do the same thing, so by that logic, just use one of those mods to increase the timers to make the game as easy as you want:D

I'm actually really enjoying it with the reduced timer, and I HATED the timer based stuff. Most of the timer missions let you defuse whatever it is, or it's a heist where you have to break out a VIP and escape. In both cases, it makes sense in context to carefully plan your move before the ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan, and then REALLY motor one the alarm is sounded.

Originally posted by Takeru Shirogane:

Also the reductions are less harsh than they seem, because in the base game the first turn you take when you enter the mission counts against you. Hence 12 and 8, rather than 13 and 9.

I've seen you say something similar to this in a couple of different discussions/comments on these mod pages but for the life of me I cannot understand exactly what you mean. I like the mod either way just trying to understand what you mean about this "extra turn".

Vanilla game logic:
Player starts with: 13 turns for neutralize missions, 9 turns for hack/data retrieval missions
Each time the player ends a turn:
remaining_turns = remaining_turns - 1 (regardless of stealth or not - no conditional check)

Gameplay Example:
When you first enter a mission you have 13 turns to finish.
After you end the very first turn you have 12 turns left (whether in or out of stealth).

Your mods logic:
Player starts with: 10 turns and 7 turns respectively
Each time the player ends a turn:
if player is not stealth then remaining_turns = remaining_turns - 1
else remaining_turns = remaining_turns

Gameplay Example:
When you first enter a mission you have 10 turns to finish.
After you end the very first turn with your mod, one of the following conditions are true:
1: Player is no longer in stealth and turns will reduce to 9.
2: Player is still in stealth and turns will remain at 10.

I'm not following where you say you get this "extra" turn from as a result of your hooked in logic? How does the vanilla game effectively become only "12" and "8" instead of "13" and "9" turns? Vanilla is calculated exactly as your mod does with the only difference being that you don't subtract a turn when the player is in stealth. But it's still 13 and 9 turns for vanilla and 10 and 7 for this version of your mod (or 13 and 9 for your default timer version). The confusion here I think is because you say the first turn in vanilla "counts against you". Well, yes. Of course. That's the whole point of your mod though. To remove that penalty. But I fail to see how it results in some extra savings of 1 turn.

Are you saying that the 13 turns in vanilla is subtracted and counted down to 12 "right as soon as the round begins" before you even do an action at all? And so you really start with 12 (not 13 turns) in vanilla? Or the other possibility I can think of is that you meant no matter what, in vanilla, you go from 13 to 12 turns after the first turn is completed (b/c stealth or no stealth doesn't matter the turns start counting down). But in your mod you are saying that even if you get "revealed" with your first turn attempt you will still have the full set of 10 turns remaining?
i.e. if you started with 10 turns with your mod active, and immediately get revealed with the first turn, you would still have 10 turns left that would then begin counting down from that next turn (second turn)? This would effectively give you 1 "extra" turn over vanilla.

Those are the only two ways I could come up with that effectively meant your mod gave 1 "extra" turn (irrespective of stealth).

Just wondering if I'm completely missing something or if this was a slightly mistaken comment?

Again, either way, very effective mod. Thanks for the work! :)

Numerically, the timers are set to 13 and 9 in the base game. Timers tick down on the start of each turn, this includes when you first enter a mission. So the moment a mission starts the timer ticks, giving you 12 and 8. You've effectively lost a turn.

My mod intercepts the timer logic, which means the timer only ticks down the turn after you've broken concealment. If you break concealment on your very first turn in the case of default timers, the next turn you'll have 12 turns remaining. So you effectively gain a free turn.