XCOM 2
Wild Talent
InverseFalcon  [developer] 25 Mar, 2016 @ 9:29pm
Custom ability feedback and new ability suggestions
Looking especially for feedback on the Colonel counter ability tier, and for ideas on replacements for Inspire and Insanity in the ability tree.
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
kenanthebarbarian 26 Mar, 2016 @ 8:48am 
Okay, so, in addition to my comment, these are some other thoughts:

Precognitive Counter sounds OP, but maybe 3 missed attacks is just a drop in the bucket at end game? Haven't gotten that far, so I don't know; always having to restart my campaigns because of f*#%@!g mods breaking.

The features that appear totally imbalanced: Soul Fire (especially at Sq. rank!), Fuse, Insanity and Fortress. They all seem too powerful for someone relying on latent, rather than trained, "psionic potential" (to quote the good Doctor).

I'd like to see more mundane, but psi-relevant, talents peppered in, like Squadsight (seeing through squadmates' eyes), Shadowstep (obfuscating oneself from enemy perception), or Scanning Protocol (using ESP to see through fog of war)—all with custom names/icons, of course, because that's what makes one custom class stand out from all the others that just remix vanilla abilities.

Any criticism aside (and I hope it has been constructive criticism), something about the concept of this class being like a psi-op-lite really fits this narrative of XCOM 2. After all, isn't the Commander, him-/herself, an escaped ADVENT guinea pig?
InverseFalcon  [developer] 26 Mar, 2016 @ 11:07am 
Thanks for the feedback!

I've only been able to test Precognitive Counter in Tactics test runs, but even at Colonel level with a beam rifle I'm seeing a ton of missed counters. I'll have to do a quick sanity check and make sure that stats are boosted to match soldier level as expected in the Tactics run, otherwise it might be totally OP. At the least I would lower the number of counters by 1. I'm hesitant to drop them to once per turn, though, especially while toying with the idea of making them a pistol class.

Soul Fire is indeed powerful at Squaddie rank. Originally I had Insanity here, with Soulfire only coming into play at Major tier, accompanied by the Soul Steal or Eye Bite effect. While Insanity did feel underwhelming at low levels (usually 50% chance of triggering), the main reasons for replacing it with Soul Fire are because of animation and coding issues. I can't seem to get custom psi powers to use the Soul Fire animation (currently affecting Eye Bite) and I ran into a weird issue with paired abilities. When I introduced the ability which adds both Soul Fire and Soul Steal, Soul Fire worked fine, but Soul Steal never triggered. Couldn't figure that out, so a custom Soul Fire ability would have been needed, which would have lacked the animation because of the previous issue. 3 broken animation abilities was a bit too much for me. If I can get help with a fix, I will be rethinking a few of the choices here. Fuse is one of my favorites, though, so even though it can be powerful, I'd seriously consider adding that at Squaddie instead.

Plus across several playthroughs my Wild Talents kept dying way before I got to Major, so I'll admit some of that frustration made me switch Soul Fire in to get SOME kind of satisfaction.

I like your suggestions for alternatives. I'm really hesitant to add Squadsight, at least in its default form. However, I do like the reasoning you have here, and I'm really digging the idea of making it an ability that you have to trigger with an appropriate cooldown (3 or 4 turns?). That sounds pretty great.

A renamed Shadowstep was actually a class ability at one point, and it's still in the code, though unused. I called it Blurred Step, with the explanation that the Wild Talent uses a combination of Blue Screen cammo and mental shrouding to move without drawing fire. If I add this back in, it will likely be paired up as an alternate choice to Combat Celerity.

Fortress was paired with Sustain from the beginning, offering the interesting choice of only one of two nice defensive powers. I'd have to think about replacing this one, I admit I'm hesitant. While Wild Talents were originally meant to be less powerful than PSI Operatives in their ability sets (and they ARE, with no access to Null Lance, Void Rift, Solace, or Dominate), I don't want them to be too low powered either. Soulfire of course weighs heavily at squaddie rank, but if that gets removed...

I'd kind of like to keep Insanity in there somewhere. Just personal preference. Though I do like your scanning protocol idea, though I'm not sure if I could get the animation to work without a gremlin. I don't have the skill to create my own custom animations yet, it's enough of a headache getting existing ones to work for custom abilities.

Thanks for the suggestions! You're not wrong on the intent of this class, a psi-op light, so at this point it's just working on balance and getting a few more interesting abilities in there.

I'm hoping, when I eventually do get around to implementing the Latent Psionic Training mod, that this enhances that feeling. I think that can also better justify having a few heavier powers early, since you'll need a Lab and Psionics researched to explicitly train in this class (it won't be trainable in the GTS), plus the testing aspect would have a random element, making the class rarer. Its in-deck frequency is set to 2 right now, so they're already lower than normal classes, and of course the more custom classes you're using the less frequently it will appear. I may lower it to 1 when I do finish up the mod, making it truly rare.
kenanthebarbarian 26 Mar, 2016 @ 11:47am 
In terms of finding a gremlin-less alternative for Scanning Protocol, check out the Recon ability from the Rogue class mod and the Target Scan ability from the Guerilla class mod. I haven't gotten to use them, personally—again, because I'm always having to start new campaigns due to mod issues—but they appear to be similar.
kenanthebarbarian 27 Mar, 2016 @ 9:25am 
The Scout class in the new Escalation Classes mod has an ability called Awareness that may also be worth looking at in terms of making a Scanning-Protocol-like ability sans gremlin.
mediumvillain 3 Apr, 2016 @ 7:39am 
The only thing I can think of changing off-hand would be Combat Celerity - it's not an especially 'psi' oriented skill & feels a little out of place. I'll give this class a try in my next campaign in place of 'Gifted' Psi Rookies (which are pretty much identical to Psi Ops but progress as normal soldiers; starting w/ both Soulfire & Stasis makes them quite powerful in the early game, but they become completely irrelevant when you train a Psi Op). Maybe the powerful defensive psi skills, fortress & sustain, could be replaced w/ more offensive or support oriented abilities to further differentiate them from Psi Ops?
InverseFalcon  [developer] 3 Apr, 2016 @ 12:14pm 
While combat celerity is kind of a place-holder, it is a decent skill and has good synergy with Eye Bite, giving opportunity to get distance and cover so they don't move and discover you on their very next turn. That said, it is kind of a narrow case.

I have some good alternates above for replacing Insanity/Inspire that I'll probably add into the next release, but I'd need some really great replacements for the counter abilities to get rid of them. I'm open to suggestions!
mediumvillain 3 Apr, 2016 @ 3:32pm 
No specific suggestions for that yet, I'll have to see how the class plays, but the fact that they ARE so powerful, part of what makes the Psi Op so OP, is why they could be replaced w/ something unique to this class. I could definitely see a Squadsight/Telepathic Vision ability - maybe even, you have to cast it on a particular squadmate to see through their eyes, and/or like a Mark/Reveal (Faceless/burrowed Chryssalids) type ability in a cone - maybe their specialty is precognitive abilities. There's a lot of custom class mods out now to get ideas from. Some new skills, but w/ psi animations would be nice - haven't seen much of that.
Another suggestion for an AoE scanning ability: The Samurai Class mod has an ability called Danger Sense that apparently reveals Faceless and buried Crysalids within a 40-tile radius.

I guess I'm just really fixated on the idea of this class having clairvoyant abilities. I think it could play a unique role as a scouting unit without being nearly as bland as a Scout class (though I honestly haven't checked out the new mod that has added that, so maybe it's great).

I kitted out my Wild Talent unit to look really sorcerery (new word), but I've avoided using it because Soul Fire still seems so OP for early game and it isn't bringing anything else to the table that justifies fielding it versus other classes.

Also, have you looked into the Partially Gifted or Invisible PsiAmps mods with an eye toward freeing up that secondary slot for something else?
InverseFalcon  [developer] 4 Apr, 2016 @ 5:03pm 
I will probably have some kind of scan ability, there's quite a few good suggestions here on where to look.

As you say, Soul Fire is OP, especially at Squaddie. Most likely I'll switch Fuse in for Squaddie, and remove Soul Fire and move the Soul Fire derivative abilities down a little, maybe to Captain.

Remember though that the long term goal is to make this work with my Latent Psionic Talent mod (in progress) which will make the class much rarer in the deck, remove it from the forced deck (and also from GTS training) and not have it discoverable (and by-chance trainable) until Psionics is researched. That will mostly remove it from the early game.

I glanced at Partially Gifted, might look into it further. I play exclusively with Invisible Psi Amps (which only hides the amp, it doesn't remove it), but with the way the game is coded, I can't free up the psi amp without removing many psionic effects from abilities (you'll note that psionic animations are kind of problematic and not guaranteed for all abilities with Partially Gifted, also it breaks any psi ability that relies on the psi amp for damage). The game isn't really designed for multiple secondaries either, so that's also out.
Last edited by InverseFalcon; 5 Apr, 2016 @ 12:35am
José 24 Apr, 2016 @ 9:42pm 
I don't feel that talent should be considered weaker than training, as Psi Ops have access to all their abilities, so I disagree with kenanthebarbarian.

Loving the mod. For me, I don't feel that this unit is overpowered. Then again, I greatly increased pod sizes for my playthrough, and it's great to fight without using console commands to get out of BS situations caused by said mod (like starting concealment in the middle of three enemy pods to immedeately get revealed, early game), but few people play like me. As for your Colonel abilities, if anything, I feel Ego Fortress needs to get BUFFED to include regular atttacks at the unit. You could make the Psi Op attack after being attacked to differentiate from Precog Counter a little more. Another thing I would suggest is their places to be switched.

If you feel that Soulfire is too strong, nerf their damage by making an ability called Soul Dart, which could have either less overall damage, or greater damage range, making it unreliable. You could get around the animation issues by duplicating Soulfire on the manager, then adding your own values.

As for Mind Control, I think that they should have some sort of level of that ability. I propose a skill called Possession. For one turn, they can take control of almost ANY unit save Avatars, including robotic enemies, three to four turn cooldown. 1-3 damage inflicted. Does not break concealment. Robotic units also have a Will stat, so why not? Since they only have talent for Psionics, not the skill, they get around Mind Control by controlling the body, not the mind, and the stress of the body being controlled against one's will puts stress on the unit's body, damaging the enemy.

You could tie in the particle effects for Stasis to the affected unit.

Use whatever you like from my idea, but despite that, I agree with everyone else, about this being more for latent power, which is to why I proposed Possession not breaking concealment; more reason to get that tasty, tasty Eye Bite.

Speaking of Eye Bite, you could also get an improved Fuse that does not break concealment for the Disruptor tree. Training is not always better than training, after all, as a kid that's been psychically making a mess will always have a better flair than someone who's been trained to use brute force. Call it Melted Candle or Hot Pants for the lolz.

Now, as for the Warden tree's Inspire, I suggest turing it into an AoE Inspire called Rally. Either a passive that gives additional action points to all units in a Solace, including the Talent, or a skill that activates the ability with a five to seven turn cooldown, making positioning and timing crucial to its use.

As for Stasis, change it to Stasis Prision, which gives Insanity once the effect is over. Small chance for Rupture that increases with weapon tech. Buff Stasis Shield by one HP and make friendly units targetable to put them on similiar levels, as well as not break concealment to encourage variety in builds.

Buff Combat Celerity to either include two actions for move, or make it one complete action where the unit can move, attack, or use items, if not Psi abilities.

In place of Insanity, we could put in that scouting skill called Premonition. It could be something like the Samurai clas, but also gives a chance at Phantom when the squad is revealed

For Warden, to balace it with Eye Bite, I propose a skill called Impregnable. It could be either Fortress and Sustain or the talent, or AoE Fortress for the squad, making grouping up as a squad for grenade bait a less stupid option, as well as plus ten defense to units in the range. Eye Bite would either make Soul Dart have the power of Soulfire, or decrease the damage range to be more reliable for its intended purpose.

This way, the Disruptor is a hellraiser, hard to keep track of, and the Warden is beacon of hope, someone that will befit the squad rather than taking glory for themself.

I know some of my ideas, sound OP, but you're talking to a guy that has both of Divine Lubrications' class mods, Infantry and Sniper. Sure, they seem OP on paper, but you have to earn your setups. I think that your custom mod should be an option completely in lieu of the Psi Op, where you have either a powerful Wild Talent, or a multiskilled Psi Op, not someone to use while you complete your most powerful Psi Operatives.

...

Sorry for the long post!
José 24 Apr, 2016 @ 9:56pm 
You could also ignore what I said and add an ability called Astral Projection. Pretty much Mimic Beacons on cooldown, and scouting.
InverseFalcon  [developer] 25 Apr, 2016 @ 12:17pm 
Yeah, quite a few of those sound rather OP to me. However, I do like the Astral Projection idea. Not sure when I'll get around to tweaking the mod, but that one will likely make the cut.
José 25 Apr, 2016 @ 2:30pm 
Cool glad you liked it. As for the other skills, it's a shame you don't like them. Guess I want to use them myself. Figure it would do to add them to the regular Psi Op pool, like the Psi Reanimation and Civillian Knockout mods. Unless you don't mind making my own class mod, inspired by yours? I really don't want to step on your toes.
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