Majesty Gold HD
Majestic Majesty 0.19
Experimental Projects & Suggestions
I will be putting up a list of the ideas I've have for new systems that can be worked into Majesty. Everything on the list has no definitive place on the timeline for completion. This will also be the place to post any suggestions for me to incorporate into the list.

Lair delving
-Heroes enter lairs, like they do regular buildings. Lairs will have an indicator to show when they are being occupied by a (party of) hero(es).
-Occupied lairs are immune to all damage until the heroes that occupy it leave. (Might change this later)
-Lairs that are open start an Initiation phase that, by the end of its duration, locks all heroes in the Lair, and on to the Lair Delving action.
-Delving into Lairs takes into account everything a hero or a party of heroes has (Attributes, Level, Spells, Items, Loyalty).
-Delving into Lairs will constantly test heroes inside them, failing tests will debuff the heroes or wound them as they go further inside.
-Succeeding tests move the heroes further in, and in some cases will reward them depending on the test.
-Lairs can kill a hero or party of heroes, but most of the time, heroes will leave the Lair if their HP falls too low.
-Lairs reward heroes differently, different heroes prefer different lairs, and different lairs offer different rewards.
Example: Warriors, Rogues, Paladins, etc. would prefer to delve Dark/Abandoned Castles for treasure and glory.
Example: Priestesses would prefer to delve into any Graveyards your kingdom contains to hone their craft or acquire a new undead minion.
Example: Wizards would prefer to delve into Ruined Altars to learn forbidden spells and increase their knowledge (Int boost).

-Lairs can gift anything and depend on the lair and what the seeker wants, from gold to equipment to improved stats to secret spells to new minions.
-Maybe do Lair capture/takeover mechanics.

More flags
-Until User Interface support is added, will have to look for different methods of enabling additional flags to be placed.

Level-Up Abilities/Spells (In Progress)
-A way for heroes to level up an ability or a spell to improve or add an effect separate from the current scaling with new spells.
-Either have it determined based on the Hero's decision of what to level up when reaching a required level
or have it always be the same at specific levels of the hero.
Example: Priestesses could Level Up Drain Life to not only heal HP while dealing damage, but also drain Max HP from targets and add it to their own or to their minion being healed temporarily.
Example 2: A hero could Level Up Generic Spell Regenerate to also apply to nearby allies.
Example 3: Rogue's could level up Explosive Bolt to allow them to carry two charges of the Bolt at a time.


Skill/Ability/Spell Tree System (In Progress)
-A way for heroes to choose the spells/abilities/skills they wish to develop every level starting from level one.
-Heroes determine what path they will choose to develop their particular class in.
Example: A newly trained Priestess can choose to go with Animate Skeleton or Raise Dead (summon Zombie) ability depending on her preference based on her starting Attributes and the presence of certain structures and other heroes in your kingdom.

Hero Regeneration System (Implemented)
-Would work better than the built-in healing system.

Poison System
-Would work better than the built-in poison system.

Procs (In Progress)
-A % chance to activate an ability/spell/behavior depending on what conditions are met.
-Currently the only proc is the Critical Strike one. I know it can be expanded to incorporate more and on varying conditions.

Mana System (Implemented)
-It's actually easy enough to implement. The trickier part is actually being able to show the mana pool to players for each unit.
-Would allow for more intelligent AI and smarter use of abilities.
-Currently, the only cost of using an ability is the Cooldown assosciated with it. This would allow for a different factor to balance new abilities to.
-Would mean certain spells could be allowed a very short cooldown, and forward the cost to their mana pool. Would allow more utility for certain spells
based on the situation.
-Might just use the Healing Potion spot in the Hero Inventory to show Current Mana Pool. Would still allow Healing Potions on Heroes to be bought and used.

Garrisoned guardhouses can be used as bunkers
-Guardhouses with ranged/spellcasting henchman can be augmented by the offensive capabilities the inhabitants provide, including spells.
-Start with Henchmen occupants for stress testing.
Example: A Wizard could garrison a nearby Guardhouse, providing it not just with an Arrow to shoot, but also with Energy Blasts and Fireballs.

More In-Depth enchanted Wizard Towers
-Allow Court Mages (or maybe Wizards at some point) affect the tower they Enchant by allowing it to cast additional spells while enchanted.
-Allow the Wizard Tower to have different attack types and functions based on the Enchanter's decision.
Example: A Wizard Tower enchanted by a Necromancer Henchman would Animate Skeletons and cast Wither rather than use a direct method of attack.

Building Repair Thresholds
-Allow certain non-critical buildings to automatically que a repair when they drop below x(%) of health. (Either a % of their Max HP or a flat value.)
-Would mean that peasants wouldn't be deployed to buildings losing 1 or 2 hp from across the map at a time.
-Would reduce the need for player input on Building Repair checks for peasant allocation.
-Would automatically disable the function if the owning player placed an Attack Flag of any bounty amount over the building.

Bank (Implemented)
-A place for heroes to visit to store their gold in and accumulate more over time.
-Useful for heroes dying out in the field and allowing their resources to be inherited among other guild members.
-Banks will be linked to the hero so that they never need to withdraw gold to make purchases in shops.

Building modifiers (Implemented)
-Since modifying certain String texts and expanding Upgrade/Research menus in the game is currently not doable, this can serve as a workaround to that.
-This will be a way of adding more utility to a structure, it will have to be scaled in cost somehow. (They will take the form of indestructible markers)
-The markers will link to the nearest viable structure, and will designate said structure as it's parent.
-The marker will detect the number of other markers the player has, and the amount currently tied to the same parent.
-Player's can remove a marker via the destroy button. The marker will also be removed if the Parent building is destroyed.
Example marker 1: Guard count increase - Increase the number of guards at *this* guardhouse.
Example marker 1a: Guard count increase (different spin) - Supplement the guard at *this* guardhouse with an Archer Guard.
Example marker 2: Weapon upgrade - Increase the damage/range of the Guardhouse arrow.
Example marker 2a: Weapon upgrade (different spin) - Change the weapon of the arrow from the Guardhouse to be poisoned arrows.
Example marker 3: Guild upgrade - Increase the Heroes allowed to be housed in the guild by +1.
Example marker 3a: Guild upgrade (different spin) - Increase the <something> of this guild's newly trained heroes. Gold, exp, attributes, a starting item, etc.


Create Spell
-A way to allow Wizard's to create their own custom spell in-game unique to that Wizard.
-Will require extensive use of the new spell system, but is doable.
-Need to determine the limits of the spells capabilities and variance.
-By necessity, the spell's name in the Wizard's spell list will always be Custom Spell, since there is no way to create an appropriate naming system
based on the sheer amount of variance in the spell created.
Example: Two level 25 Wizards can create a Spell, and do so according to what they require based on their items, learned spells, HP, and intelligence. The first Wizard has all spells learned and all possible items acquired. So he creates an offensive spell that deals damage, bounces, and poisons. The second Wizard only knows the basic Wizard spells and has no items, so he creates a utility spell that gives him Temporary Hit Points and renders him invisible for 1 second at a time every 3 seconds of the spell's duration, constantly phasing him in and out of sight. The Wizard's decisions will vary, and two Wizards with exact same level, stats, HP, learned spells, and items may choose to create a different spell.

Damage/Resistance Types - (Implemented)
-Currently the game only has Damage and Magic Damage. Would like to expand on these types to allow for greater depth and variety in combat design.
-Current types to be incorporated for Damage/Resistance: Slashing, Piercing, Crushing, Fire, Cold, Electric, Poison, Magic, Divine, Necromantic, Chaotic.

Hero Relationships
-Adding list callbacks to units for finding an entity that cast a debuff/buff on it to allow for durational effects to scale with Hero level.
-Adding list callbacks for heroes to help them identify their relationship with other heroes.
-Relation List types (concise): Familiar, Friend, Ally, Dislike, Loathsome, Guildmate (they both rest in same building), Guildmember ( they both rest in a different building), Master, Student, Reliable, Unreliable, Coward, Loyal, Disloyal, Nemesis (example: this would be if a Rogue continued to be caught by a Paladin stealing in your kingdom, and would result in the Rogue and Paladin constantly interfering with each other's tasks in various ways)

New Types of Treasure Chests
-Physically or magically locked chests which require an aptitude for lockpicking or magic to open.
-Rotting or damaged chests with generally lower quality rewards inside.
-Ethereal chests that require special magic to interact with and unlock.

Magic Find Property
-Give individual heroes magic find that works similar to how it does in Diablo 2.

Mercenary Citadel
-A place for Hero's with enough Charisma and Gold to purchase the aid of a mercenary.
-Mercenary's level scale with their contracting hero.
-The number of Mercenaries a hero can have is based on his Charisma.
Mercenaries do NOT count has Henchmen.

Monuments
-Similar to what Shrines served as in Diablo 2, a spot on the map that can be activated by a hero for varying effects based off the monument used.
-Expanded shrine functions compared to what they are based off of.

Off-Map Kingdoms
-Kingdoms that are based off the borders of the map that can be discovered by your Settlement in cases where a Ranger journeys to distant lands.
-Will be able to allow the neighboring kingdom to open an Embassy within your kingdom to begin diplomatic relationships.
-Other kingdoms can have varying personalities and affect your kingdom in different ways depending on how friendly/unfriendly you are being towards them.
-Can send aid to the other kingdom in its time of crisis by choosing which heroes to send, with success/failure depending on the quality and composition of heroes sent.
-Can request aid from a neighboring kingdom to send its own heroes to help yours if you are on good terms.

Religion
-Heroes can choose to begin worshipping a deity if they are pre-disposed to doing so (Temple Hero) or are highly influenced to do so (Kingdom having a high number of believers).
-Townspeople can also choose to worship a deity in the same manner that heroes can. Certain types of townspeople are predisposed to liking a certain deity (Farmers liking Agrella/Fervus).

Resources
-Additional resource types other than gold for the player to collect.
-Will be useful for diplomatic relations as gold is currently the only resource that could be offered.

Taxation
-Allow Palace to set tax rates for building by type or by batch.
-Each building can also have its own separate tax amount marker to set their tax rates on an individual level.
-Taxable buildings will all have their own reserved gold amount separate from their shown gold.
-Their shown gold will be the amount that the tax collector still picks up and is directly deducted from their reserved gold.
-Buildings with reserved gold can have it stolen just like their shown gold by Rogues.
-Buildings can spend their reserved gold on different things such as upgrading the quality of their services/wares.
-Reserved gold, in a sense, can be considered the expendable budget that a building has.
-Buildings also have expenses that also deduct from their reserved gold that can be affected by various things.
-Overtaxed buildings can suffer from reduction in quality/wares to being outright abandoned.
-A basic expense for a buildings would be food, which can be reduced by the kingdoms number of farmers, number of successful crop sales, and types of crop sold at a marketplace/palace.

Townspeople
Example: Each house can have a Farmer inside of it. Farmers will seed resources around their House, and then harvest them later to sell at a marketplace or the Palace at a lower amount if you have no marketplace. Can invest in better seeds to plant.
-Can base hero skills or entire skill trees to helping out townspeople in your kingdom.
-Townspeople can hold occupations depending on budgets of your other buildings. Occupational townspeople can earn wages from being employed. Employed townspeople travel from their home to their place of work.
Example: A townsperson with a Smith occupation lends his talents to a Blacksmith and increases the overall quality of weapons/armor purchased from there, as well as increasing the types of weapon/armor available.
-Occupational jobs can have their own individual level for townspeople holding those positions depending on how experienced they are in a particular craft. Occupational jobs can specialize, such as a Smith specializing as a Weaponsmith or Armorsmith.
Addendum: Hopefully will include Townspeople unique to races (Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes) that reside in their own type of residential structure.

Edit: New Additions to Experimental Projects List

Enemy Tracking List (Partially Implemented) ~ Suggested by: AlbertJethro
-A list for each hero to track the enemies they've encountered/defeated.
-Can be used for multiple AI routines including a hero's determination of skill progression.
Example: If a Wizard encounters a lot of Dragons then their AI should tell them that skilling into the Fire Tree is a poor idea.
*Currently all entities can track how many of a certain entity they've killed as well as hold general categories of kills.

Practice-Based Skill Progression ~ Suggested by: Alfryd
-A progression system for skills and practices that the hero develops separate from the Skill Tree and not tied strictly to Hero Level.
-Somewhat similar to the Elder Scrolls proficiency system, though would like to add more depth.
It'll take some time to figure out the details and progression of the system. I'll have time to put some thought into it after the next release.

Time
-Tracking of the passage of time in-game: Minutes, Hours, Days, Weeks, Months, Seasons, Years, along with a Day/Night cycle if possible. (Would have to lengthen days for days and nights to progress at a reasonable duration).
-Allows for specific time based events (Holidays, Weeks devoted to a certain deity, etc.)
-Different effects on the kingdom depending on the day, such as certain Holidays can boost economy, Spring and Summer Seasons increase crop yield for agriculture, A week devoted to a certain God can give a benefit to worshipers of said God during that week.
-Different effect on the map as a whole depending on the passage of time, such as monsters specific to a season can emerge or disappear once the season occurs (Wendigos/Ice Dragons emerge in Winter while Animals such as Hellbears hibernate).
-Gradual increase of difficulty in monsters as elapsed time increases in game. ~ Suggested by: monguinassassin

Edit: New Additions to Experimental Projects List II

Neutral Units/Structures
-Generation of neutral structures and units that can interact in different ways with your kingdom.
-Can vary in size, anywhere from a band of roaming traders to a small hamlet in the wilderness.
-Provides an alternative means of expanding your kingdom's influence without the need for directly building structures such as Outposts and Guardhouses out on the fringes of the map.

Generate Based On Map Scale
-In other words, the size of maps maps will result in the generation of various objects of the mod accordingly.
-Larger maps will also leave more room to expand on the potential for map "hemispheres" to allocate the generation of a specific theme of game objects.
Example: A huge forest map can have the general location of your kingdom in the South, while the Northeast can have creatures, structures, and objects start to gradually shift to reflect a Krolm or Fervus influenced location which can result in different interactions depending on whether your kingdom is or isn't s follower of said deity.


Edit: New Additions to Experimental Projects List III

Multi-Stage AI Decisions (Implemented) ~ Suggested by: Galle
-Heroes proceed down a list of tasks depending on the intent that they settle on executing.
Example:
Цитата допису Galle:
* Prepare for adventure (buy any necessary supplies, recruit "party members")
* Travel to destination
* Fight monsters en route to destination
* Fight lair defenders
* Destroy lair

Criminal Activity & Order ~ Suggested by: Galle
-Your kingdom has a notoriety which is determined by the amount of Order vs the amount of potential criminal activity that your kingdom can have.
-Criminal activity can be influenced by vice buildings and units, such as Elves and Rogues and their respective guilds.
-Can have varying degrees of effects on your kingdom depending on the amount of notoriety it gains.

Edit: New Additions to Experimental Projects List IV

Shop Item Stock (Partially Implemented)
-Shops can carry a stock of items to sell to heroes that can be replenished over time or through alternative means, such as heroes selling items to the shop or from Caravans arriving at the shop.
-Would allow for Marketplaces to gain an alternative benefit from Trading Posts other than Gold, as Trading Posts can increase the variety of wares for sale at a Marketplace.
-Eventually combine aspects of Trading Posts with Off-Map Kingdoms to allow Trading Posts bordering the edges of the map leading to a known Off-Map Kingdom to deliver wares to a Marketplace unique due to the influence of the Trading Post's location as a border post.

Magical Disturbances
-Sovereign Spells attract the attention of malignant forces that are drawn to such arrogant displays of power, causing varying effects depending on the severity and abuse of Sovereign spells.
-Buff, Debuff, and Resurrection spells would scale in their degree of magical disturbance based on the target they are cast on as well as the level of the target.
-Damage spells will have a fixed degree of magical disturbance not scaled based on the target they are used on.
-Magical Disturbance wears off over time if Sovereign spells are used minimally and infrequently.
-The greater the Magical Disturbance, the greater the chance of a negative effect occurring, and the greater potential severity of the effect.

Edit: New Additions to Experimental Projects List V

Field Research ~ Suggested by: Andy
-Heroes/Townspeople can conduct research on monsters/lairs/objects and return their findings to an appropriate structure to influence options available in said structure.
-Heroes/Townspeople can find and collects items that are specifically made for research purposes.
Example: A hero can enter a Graveyard to collect information and upon returning their findings to a Library, the Library can allow Priestesses to learn a new spell or enhance an aspect of a spell currently available to Priestesses.

Edit: New Additions to Experimental Projects List VI

Focused Damage (Abandoned)
-All units can now receive and deal damage that can target directly or indirectly another unit's body parts (eyes, arms, legs, tails, tentacles, etc.).
-Units that receive heavy damage to a particular body part can suffer from a debuff based on the part that is heavily damaged. Damage legs results in impaired movement, damaged eyes results in Sight Range loss, etc.
Abandoned due to its actual presence being difficult and unwieldy for observation by the player and the gimmicky nature of such a system doesn't fit neatly with the game's combat system.

Expanded Rogue Looting
-Rogue's will be able to loot miscellanious objects unique to places that they burgle from.
Example: Rogues can go inside a House and find not just gold, but also various objects unique to that house such as Vases, Utensils, Food, etc. that they can pawn off for extra gold. Looted homes slowly replenish their lost wares if what was stolen is essential for day-to-day activities by the peasantry.

Edit: New Additions to Experimental Projects List VII

Physical Characteristics
-All units and structures can have their physical characteristics tracked by the game.
-For units, this means Height, Width, and Weight. If applicable, it can also include general composition of their body (Rock Golems being mostly composed of Rock).
-For Structures, this includes Surface Area as well. This can come in handy for determining approximate space in the structure for living quarters and other furnishings.
-These characteristics can help determine multiple types of engagements and how different physical characteristics come into play.
*Gnomes facing most humanoid entities will end up dealing focused damage to the lower extremities of their enemies more often than not.
*Rock Golems will more than likely always end up dealing focused damage to the upper extremities of their targets..

Colony Establishment
-On very large scaled maps, the establishment of colonies on the map can be performed by the placement and construction of a building by the founding player.
-Colonies will naturally be independent settlements created by the player, and must be constructed a minimum distance from the player's Palace and Outposts.
-An established colony will determine it's own progress once it has been established based on a variety of factors. These decisions include the types of buildings they construct and the type of relationship they desire with the founding player.
-Colonies will grow faster the farther away they are from the player's Palace/Outposts.
-Colonies can form distinct relationships with other colonies and off-map kingdoms that can be different from the founding player.
Автор останньої редакції: amantalado; 7 серп. 2018 о 1:28
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Показані коментарі 115 із 169
Whoop. *dusts off hat and gets on feet again* That's a big list! I don't think there's anything here I'd strenuously disagree with, and 80-90% of it are things I'd love to see, but I think some prioritisation or structure might be helpful.

So... I'll try to break this down under some broad headings:


Need Moar Dakka:

* New/expanded spells & skill development: My only caveat here is that adding more complexity to individual heroes will only fit neatly in the player's head if you either (A) shrink the roster or (B) greatly extend play times (possibly by carrying heroes from mission to mission.) I think those could both be valuable steps, but it's a quite different game. I went into this in some detail here[forum.paradoxplaza.com] and here[forum.paradoxplaza.com].

* New/expanded trinkets: Similar to the above. I want want want it, but be careful what you wish for.

* New/expanded health system (mana, regen, poison, damage types, etc): Again, 90% on-board with you here. Just... have you consider using a 'fatigue' system instead of calling it mana?


Paladin Waifu Simulator:

* Hero Relationships: Same caveat as with added skills. If the player can track it, great.

* Religion & Monuments/shrines: Awesome! (Even better if the lay congregation can learn a few basic spells that way.)

* Off-map Kingdoms & Diplomacy: If you're thinking of adding townsfolk, why not a royal family? In theory, you could form marriage alliances with neighbouring sovereigns, or lead heroes in person on missions.


The Royal Treshury Ish... Complicated:

* Taxation, Banking, Trade & Resources: I sort of had resources + trade working in stratos as well, and it's cool and all, but evaluating supply and demand and making efficient deliveries is a somewhat non-trivial undertaking for the AI. Just approach with care, is all. (You could also combine this with an expanded economy by, e.g, having Dauros make stonecutting more efficient or Fervus blessing wine.)

* Mercenaries/Followers: How about 'apprentices'? You've already got squires for warriors, so in theory you could one or two trainee wizards in the lower halls of the guild?

* Townspeople: I am pro-townspeople. However, I would suggest that the population not exceed more than 50% of recruited heroes or so (unless the latter are somehow very visually distinctive.)


Awesome But Impractical:

* Lair delving & off-map missions: As much as I'd love to see this expanded, the basic problem is that you can't *see* the heroes doing it, so it's unlikely to be quite as engaging as regular outdoor combats. I think you'd need major modifications to the game engine to do this feature justice.

* Additional flags: A pity. (An old suggestion going back to the cyberlore boards was that a controllable sovereign could ask heroes to do stuff directly, which I *kinda* had working in stratos. That'd probably need major UI changes, though.)

* Additional building upgrades: It's a shame this can't be modified in a more straightforward manner, but if you're confident this can be hooked into the UI, fantastic?



In summary: Gods speed, Amantalado. Though the road be long, I will help if I can.
Автор останньої редакції: Alfryd; 18 черв. 2016 о 21:08
Geez, man. Majesty already totes itself as the "Fantasy Kingdom Simulator," but this is just on a whole other level!

My only real question is on the subject of distant (off-map) kingdoms: if you piss one off enough (and I mean really work at it) could they send bands of their own heroes (or even small armies) to attack your kingdom?
Автор останньої редакції: arcanist; 19 черв. 2016 о 0:04
Цитата допису Alfryd:
* Lair delving & off-map missions: As much as I'd love to see this expanded, the basic problem is that you can't *see* the heroes doing it, so it's unlikely to be quite as engaging as regular outdoor combats. I think you'd need major modifications to the game engine to do this feature justice.
You raise a good point. The way I intend to show hero activity while inside a lair or journeying off-map is through their intents, since representing them performing the activity is impractical. For instance, heroes that are doing Lair Delving related activities will have all their intents prefaced with 'Lair Delving:' followed by the type of activity they are doing within the lair, whether it be opening a locked door, deciphering wall carvings, etc. as they spend time in the lair and progress with their tasks. For the vast majority of the systems on this list, it's a case of not knowing until I've even attempted it.

Цитата допису arcanist:
My only real question is on the subject of distant (off-map) kingdoms: if you piss one off enough (and I mean really work at it) could they send bands of their own heroes (or even small armies) to attack your kingdom?
If we are speaking of this system when it's been hypothetically fleshed out, then yes, I'd like for neighboring kingdoms to have all sorts of actual effects in-game, including sending their own heroes to attack you if your relationship deteriorates, or have them hire bands of monsters and pirates to raid you if they are a particularly notorious enemy kingdom. I'd like for them to want to send their spellcasters to your kingdom to learn from your libraries and visit guilds of high level spellcasters to learn from them and vice versa. The list goes on, and there are theoretically no ends to the effects other kingdoms can have. In theory, nearly every system has no end to development since there can always be something new to develop and implement.

A lot of it just comes down to having time to do those things. All of that is possible, the code allows for it. It's just a matter of the amount of work that I can put forth that determines when rather than if these systems will be fully realized.
Автор останньої редакції: amantalado; 19 черв. 2016 о 3:59
Hi, I really need to thank you for what u've done so far, honestly, this is awesome.
Now reguarding ur improvement they all seems great, but I have some questions: first how the religion system will work ? And what did it provides (events ? like if ur kingdom is loyal to krypta, will some paladin send into ur land to purify it ?).
And do you think its possible to make this mod playable on multiplayer ? It would be awesome !

Anyway, thx you amantaldo for your dedication to this game, u give him a second life and ur actually improving one of the only real "godgame"
Цитата допису Thomas hawk:
Hi, I really need to thank you for what u've done so far, honestly, this is awesome.
Now reguarding ur improvement they all seems great, but I have some questions: first how the religion system will work ? And what did it provides (events ? like if ur kingdom is loyal to krypta, will some paladin send into ur land to purify it ?).
And do you think its possible to make this mod playable on multiplayer ? It would be awesome !

The Religion system's mechanics are currently up in the air at the moment, but the eventuality is that I'd like for heroes/townspeople to receive different benefits as well as behave differently depending on the level of their faith, which god they worship, as well as the overall worship of their specified god. For instance, those that worship Krolm would be more likely to go berserk against an enemy, prioritize offensive capabilities and encourage other heroes to do the same. That is a concise and simplified example of what Religion would do, but I would like the end result to be far more in-depth and detailed. The example event you gave would certainly be one of the details I'd like to include after the system has been fully fleshed out, but as of right now, it is an idea that can change and adapt depending on how the rest of the mod is progressing.

There is no reason that the mod wouldn't be multiplayer compatible, it all depends on when the Majesty Beta enables multiplayer.
Автор останньої редакції: amantalado; 19 черв. 2016 о 7:16
Цитата допису amantalado:
You raise a good point. The way I intend to show hero activity while inside a lair or journeying off-map is through their intents, since representing them performing the activity is impractical. For instance, heroes that are doing Lair Delving related activities will have all their intents prefaced with 'Lair Delving:' followed by the type of activity they are doing within the lair, whether it be opening a locked door, deciphering wall carvings, etc. as they spend time in the lair and progress with their tasks. For the vast majority of the systems on this list, it's a case of not knowing until I've even attempted it.

To be honest, the overall cap on a player's mental bandwidth is the point I'd most emphasise. (Because I did attempt this, and while it's technically 100% feasible I know from experience the problem is making sure the player can/will keep up.)

The principle is simple enough- if you have 20-40 individual heroes that have 2 unique variables each (class and level), it's possible for the player to (if only subconsciously) keep track of all of that data within a single hour-long game. (This is what vanilla Majesty does, because heroes' personalities, gear and skillsets are relatively standardised- if you know one priestess, you know them all.)

If heroes instead have 5, 10 or 20 unique variables (between skills+traits+motives+relationships+trinkets), and these variables are actually important, then you either need to give the player correspondingly fewer heroes to track or correspondingly longer to get to know them. e.g, maybe 5-6 heroes for an hour, or 20-40 heroes over 20 hours. And they can't change too fast.

Naturally, there's some individual variation in tastes and attention-span here, but I think these are kinds of figures you should be eyeballing. Anyway, enough of my cavilling. If you can pull it off, it'll be fantastic.
Цитата допису Alfryd:

Need Moar Dakka:

* New/expanded spells & skill development: My only caveat here is that adding more complexity to individual heroes will only fit neatly in the player's head if you either (A) shrink the roster or (B) greatly extend play times (possibly by carrying heroes from mission to mission.) I think those could both be valuable steps, but it's a quite different game. I went into this in some detail here[forum.paradoxplaza.com] and here[forum.paradoxplaza.com].

* New/expanded trinkets: Similar to the above. I want want want it, but be careful what you wish for.

* New/expanded health system (mana, regen, poison, damage types, etc): Again, 90% on-board with you here. Just... have you consider using a 'fatigue' system instead of calling it mana?

I've looked at the links for posts in other forums and the concern seems centered around two points. Variables the player needs to keep track of per hero and the overall time needed for hero development. I'm not concerned over much on the first point for the main reason that the player doesn't necessarily need to keep track of every variables, but just have a general idea of the depth and behavior spread of a hero class. I think that this is a concern for those who wish to severely micro-manage every individual hero, rather than players who prefer a mass of heroes among which they find a few outstanding ones that they grow attached to and keep track of.

Time and lack of hero transfer between scenarios is definitely the greater concern when it comes to realizing all the systems to their fullest potential, but that doesn't mean that all scenarios utilizing the mod necessarily need to be huge maps or long duration. The base game has some relatively fast paced scenarios wherein you won't see anything past one or two guilds built before it ends (Scions of Chaos), so people should be able to get as much enjoyment from the mod in a short playtime as they would without it. Though in its final state, it would very much e suited for the longer games in bigger maps to fully realize all of its features.

Lastly, mana vs. fatigue, the name is pretty much irrelevant until UI support comes in. There is no in-game indicator other than the presence of mana potions that let the player know that such a thing exists in-game. It's first and foremost a resource system that heroes can utilize to expend their abilities with, and the UI currently only allows me to display one type of 'this' resource in a convenient way for the hero by replacing the indicator for healing potions. If/When UI support comes in, I'd love to expand a Hero's resources accordingly, allowing them pools of Mana, Fatigue, Stamina, Spirit, Essence, etc. to spend on spells, abilities, activities, and so on.
Цитата допису Alfryd:

To be honest, the overall cap on a player's mental bandwidth is the point I'd most emphasise. (Because I did attempt this, and while it's technically 100% feasible I know from experience the problem is making sure the player can/will keep up.)

The principle is simple enough- if you have 20-40 individual heroes that have 2 unique variables each (class and level), it's possible for the player to (if only subconsciously) keep track of all of that data within a single hour-long game. (This is what vanilla Majesty does, because heroes' personalities, gear and skillsets are relatively standardised- if you know one priestess, you know them all.)

If heroes instead have 5, 10 or 20 unique variables (between skills+traits+motives+relationships+trinkets), and these variables are actually important, then you either need to give the player correspondingly fewer heroes to track or correspondingly longer to get to know them. e.g, maybe 5-6 heroes for an hour, or 20-40 heroes over 20 hours. And they can't change too fast.

Naturally, there's some individual variation in tastes and attention-span here, but I think these are kinds of figures you should be eyeballing. Anyway, enough of my cavilling. If you can pull it off, it'll be fantastic.

The way I'm going about this is to eventually not require that the player need to be on top of or keep a constant vigil over their heroes. Part of the mod will prioritize the expansion of the AI's decision making to be far more capable and self sufficient than its current iteration. While the player can choose to focus on their heroes on an individual level for a stronger, smaller force, I would like for players who prefer an army of heroes with little in the way of micromanagement to also have other things in the game to focus on when their attention isn't being demanded by their heroes (diplomacy, taxes, infrastructures, etc.)

The eventual hope is that many of these systems can be left to their own devices if the players chooses to do so, but that player input would maximize the potential of whatever the focus of their play-style is.
Автор останньої редакції: amantalado; 19 черв. 2016 о 13:02
I think it's not a question of micromanagement per se. The point is that Majesty revolves around knowing your heroes well enough that you can, statistically, manipulate them indirectly and exploit their strengths/weaknesses even when you can't shout out individual orders.

(This is why the short missions in Majesty work just as well as the long- because the warrior of discord you recruit in Scions has the same IQ and same weaponised scythe as the warrior of discord you recruit in Goblin Hordes. One is just a little more seasoned.)

The key phrase being 'know your heroes'. If heroes have lots of individual variations which have a strong impact on their behaviour and aptitudes, then you can no longer just acquaint yourself with the archetype and actually have to know them as individuals. Which could be wonderful! But it takes more effort.

If you don't know your heroes, you can't nudge them in a given direction, even on a loose statistical basis. And then the game doesn't work so well.
Цитата допису Alfryd:
I think it's not a question of micromanagement per se. The point is that Majesty revolves around knowing your heroes well enough that you can, statistically, manipulate them indirectly and exploit their strengths/weaknesses even when you can't shout out individual orders.

(This is why the short missions in Majesty work just as well as the long- because the warrior of discord you recruit in Scions has the same IQ and same weaponised scythe as the warrior of discord you recruit in Goblin Hordes. One is just a little more seasoned.)

The key phrase being 'know your heroes'. If heroes have lots of individual variations which have a strong impact on their behaviour and aptitudes, then you can no longer just acquaint yourself with the archetype and actually have to know them as individuals. Which could be wonderful! But it takes more effort.

If you don't know your heroes, you can't nudge them in a given direction, even on a loose statistical basis. And then the game doesn't work so well.

It depends on how much the player really wants to know their hero as well, and that goes together with how much there actually is to get to know about a hero. I would hope to focus on the latter while encouraging the former, but the ultimate result is that the player can distinguish that while two Warriors are of equal level, they are distinct from one another to an extent, with that extent being affected by just how developed they are as well as how developed and in which direction your kingdom developed in. They would still perform the function of being the foot soldiers of your hero composition when you set up attack flags to send them off to attack, but their activities outside of being loosely guided would be different on an individual level. One Warrior may have stronger ties to the god Krolm and actively seek out combat when left to his own devices, while the other Warrior who has built up Loyalty and Prestige in the kingdom may choose to patrol your Guardhouses in his spare time. They would have their own personality traits while adhering to their function as Warriors when the player needs/wants them to, with the distinctions being there to not necessarily need tracking of, but to provide a sense of individuality.

Nudging heroes in any direction is ultimately a binary act in Majesty when it comes to player interference. Outside of sovereign spells, your options are Attack Flags and Explore Flags, and finding out when your heroes flip their switch from ignore to accepting the bounty depending on how high of a numerical value that flag has. Infrastructure is the same premise. If you build it, and if your hero wants it and can pay for it, then the hero will get it.
Автор останньої редакції: amantalado; 19 черв. 2016 о 13:37
In regards to the lair exploration:
-If heroes leave a lair based on their HP going too low, it should spawn some monsters at the same time (chasing them out and exposing the kingdom to danger).
On the subject of binary interventions: That's kind of true, in that heroes either follow a flag or go shopping or don't, but the size and placement of bounties and amenities does have some uniform impact on heroes' behaviour, in a probabilistic sense. (A cheesy example is laying a 100 gold explore-flag-breadcrumb-trail leading from a rogue's guild, or parking your temple to dauros in the path of likely raids so the monks get some experience.)


"[The] distinctions [would be] there to not necessarily need tracking of, but to provide a sense of individuality."

For now, I should mention I am 100% enthusiastic about more self-sufficient AI, and I love the idea of every hero having that kind of richness of experience. (The idea of the player picking out a handful of favourites to carry between missions out of a sea of recruits is also something that I reckon could work very well.)

However, I also think that there is a trade-off here between how meaningfully individual heroes can be and how well they can dropped in to fill a specific strategic or tactical slot in your kingdom (which they kinda have to do within an hour-long game.) You're talking about adding a lot of mechanical complexity here, so you need to be sure that the benefits outweigh the costs. I am not speaking as a hypothetical here. I have seen it play out.


Ughh... this is sounding so negative. I will try to do some proper investigation of actual GPL coding over the next few weeks and get cracking then. Just be careful, okay?
Автор останньої редакції: Alfryd; 19 черв. 2016 о 15:40
Цитата допису AlbertJethro:
In regards to the lair exploration:
-If heroes leave a lair based on their HP going too low, it should spawn some monsters at the same time (chasing them out and exposing the kingdom to danger).

I plan to have events trigger from the lair when delving depending on the Successes and Failures of heroes pursuing an activity within them once I've found a suitable time to start working on it.



Цитата допису Alfryd:
However, I also think that there is a trade-off here between how meaningfully individual heroes can be and how well they can dropped in to fill a specific strategic or tactical slot in your kingdom (which they kinda have to do within an hour-long game.) You're talking about adding a lot of mechanical complexity here, so you need to be sure that the benefits outweigh the costs. I am not speaking as a hypothetical here. I have seen it play out.

The intent is to have heroes capable of performing the function that you need them to within the short games, while adding complexity to the hero as they stick around for the longer ones. Heroes won't start out being highly complex individuals from level 1, but will gain their own quirks and complexity as they develop and grow within your kingdom. Heroes of the same class at low levels will all behave and perform relatively similar functions with a few eccentric out-liers that can end up rolling on the extreme ends for character generation. Heroes of the same class at high levels would be the ones that would have such complexities and personalities as they experience and grow in your kingdom to carry out roles unique to that individual.

It's too early to tell what the case may end up being, but I do intend to progress through these systems slowly and methodically. The Mana System, Intent System, Spell System, and Fire Skill Tree prototype for the Wizard will determine the strengths and weaknesses of the systems to address any potential problems before moving on. This will be the case for any new systems being developed as well, to prevent stagnation and deterioration of gameplay if a system is flawed in some way. These are experimental projects for a reason, not everything here may end up being viable and could end up being scrapped if it ends up just not working out. I have high hopes, but I won't implement a system if it ends up deteriorating the game in some way.
You know, by the time you're done, these heroes that will be running around by the dozen are probably going to be more developed and tuned than in a lot of games where you're supposed to play as the hero.
Цитата допису amantalado:
The intent is to have heroes capable of performing the function that you need them to within the short games, while adding complexity to the hero as they stick around for the longer ones. Heroes won't start out being highly complex individuals from level 1, but will gain their own quirks and complexity as they develop and grow within your kingdom. Heroes of the same class at low levels will all behave and perform relatively similar functions with a few eccentric out-liers that can end up rolling on the extreme ends for character generation. Heroes of the same class at high levels would be the ones that would have such complexities and personalities as they experience and grow in your kingdom to carry out roles unique to that individual.
...Hmm. ...Maybe. I suppose, looking back on your original post, the bulk of the ideas outlined would only kick in once a given hero has a few levels under their belt. If they start out as relatively 'blank slates' and evolve gradually over time, it might work.

I'd still be wary of what might happen once a player has 30-40 heroes that are all or mostly level 5-10, though, which could conceivably happen within an hour or two of play (particularly given that most guilds now offer expanded accommodations within the mod.) That could be tricky to keep pace with.


I think it would be helpful to sketch out how large you imagine a typical kingdom being, how many henchmen + townsfolk, newbie heroes and veterans there'd be, how quickly they can gain experience, and how long a typical game would last (including, possibly, multiple quests with the same cast of heroes.) That'll give us a better framework for estimating where skills, relationships and other quirks can fit in.
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