Store Page
Stellaris
All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos Workshop News Guides Reviews

Stellaris

Store Page
Stellaris >  Workshop > Blackthorn's Workshop > ZBeautiful Battles > Discussions
ZBeautiful Battles
Description Discussions13 Comments1610 Change Notes
test 5 Jun, 2016 @ 11:21pm
Test test test and more test
(sorry about the crappy title but I just didnt know how to call this :D)

The following might not be the optimal test out there (i rushed it a bit since I dont have a lot of time right now) BUT its good enough for now, i think it shows the problem i was talking about quite well.

The only mod enabled is BB.

Here is the save file for my current test: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=58703250658365983566 (just type in console attackallfleets)

Here is a screenshot of the fleet to the left: http://i.imgur.com/vgLdegk.jpg
Here is a screenshot of the fleet to the right: http://i.imgur.com/mmOZabu.jpg

For the current test we dont care about damage done or anything so dont mind the extreme deficit in minerals/credits and the -100% damage to weapons malus.

I've created a few ship designs and then spawned 2 identical fleets with a combination of aggressive and defensive cpus.

In the screenshot I provided I have the mouse hovering over a corvette (called AACo) armed with autocannons and aggressive cpus. As you can see, the battle has already begun and those ships stay at the back of the fleet, in formation ... waiting until they get in range to fire their weapons. Meanwhile the frontline ships are already firing at each other.

If these fleets didnt have a 100% malus on damage, we would see half the fleet being torn apart while the other half (with short range weapons) be at the back or something very similar.


This can be seen not only on corvettes, tehre are destroyers as well with aggressive cpus and short range weapons that are holding back isntead of rushing towards the enemy.

Now, i realize this might not be a problem with your mod and it might have to do with how vanilla combat works but I hope that we (modders) can do something about it.
I believe that these ships, armed with short range weapons should be the first ones rushing in combat and not the other way around.

In vanilla, this issue does not exist as far as I know. Weapon ranges are shorter, ship speeds in combat is higher and the distance between each ship is smaller thus they enter combat faster which I guess "hides" this problem we are having here.
Last edited by test; 6 Jun, 2016 @ 8:16am
< >
Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
test 5 Jun, 2016 @ 11:28pm 
I dont know if we can influence each ship position within a fleet formation depending on the type of cpu its fitted with.

For instance, if we could make ships with aggressive cpus be on the front lines and the defensive cpus be at the back with teh balanced cpus be in the middle of a fleet then I think we can reduce this problem somewhat.

I dont see a pattern as to why, for example in my test, the fleet to the right has all corvettes at the back and the fleet to the left has part of them at the back and part at the front of the fleet.


Getting back to how cpus should work in a perfect world (imo). Aggressive cpus should make ships charge towards enemies when a battle starts to get in range of their weapons and defensive cpus should make ships maneuver and stay at the back, at maximum range of their weapons. Currently all ships seem to fly in formation no matter what ... except maybe the ships that are at the very front of a fleet, they seem to somewhat break off the main fleet once a battle starts.
#1
Moonglow 6 Jun, 2016 @ 3:26am 
The position pre combat in a formation is the the fleet_slot_size = value (1 is in front, 2 right after ect....)

Only this is written in the ship_sizes.txt and i think its ship class specific.

I havent tested if this can be altered with module's. What i know if screwing with this causes collisions within fleet movement.
#2
Blackthorn  [developer] 6 Jun, 2016 @ 8:36pm 
Ok I updated the mod taking into account your concerns test (You have an ironically appropriate username in this regard). I made some changes that should alleviate the problem somewhat when the corvettes start off in the back of the fleet.

Being the shortest ranged ships and also the fastest, this causes problems obviously when the (idiotic) fleet formation manager puts corvettes in the back of the fleet. (I am very annoyed by this fact and I do not know how to mod this but I suspect the variables responsible are not exposed in the text files and are hardcoded.)

Unfortunately the side effect of this is that there will be more clipping and the fleets will be more spaced out and hence take up more real estate in any given system. If I tweak the values anymore it will not look very pleasing so this is about as good as it gets.

Hopefully Paradox gives us some way to determine how our fleet is setup pre battle or a smarter automated fleet position formula. Until then, this is about as good as it gets unless someone can point me to a file that governs fleet position assignment.

Thank you for providing me with the save to test and for giving feedback in the first place without lynching me with pitchfork / torch in hand.
#3
Blackthorn  [developer] 6 Jun, 2016 @ 8:37pm 
Now please let me get back to Total War: Warhammer :) :) :) "RISE MY MINIONS, THE DEAD MARCH"
#4
test 6 Jun, 2016 @ 9:03pm 
Well, I choose my names carefully :D

Anyway, thanks for looking into it! I'll give it a shot now with the same save i sent you and see how things are.

Wish I had Total War Warhammer ... I wouldnt look for things for you to do in this mod then :D
Last edited by test; 6 Jun, 2016 @ 9:04pm
#5
test 7 Jun, 2016 @ 12:37am 
I've run a couple more tests, with the same save i sent you and ... well, things appear to be slightly better but i feel that its RNG based. For instance, the fleet to the left has all corvettes at the back and, well, they do much, they cant pass their ships in front i presume in order to rush at the enemy.

The fleet to the right has corvettes more towards the front and thus they do seem to get into range faster and easier than those from the left.
Its RNG to me because it depends on how the game decides to form a fleet formation.

In this case the fleet to the right wiped out the fleet to the left and ended the battle with 6.7K forces left. This is because the corvettes from the right entered weapons range faster than those from the left.

RNG is bad overall so if we can avoid this ... I wouldnt want to fight a smaller enemy fleet but end in losing the battle because of fleet formation that i have no control over.



Also, somewhat unrelated note, I think weapons ranges are way too long. Fleets entered combat more than half a system a way, thats just not right.
This is just my opinion anyway.
#6
< >
Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Per page: 1530 50