Stellaris

Stellaris

ZBeautiful Battles
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Blackthorn  [developer] 22 May, 2016 @ 11:25pm
RE: Defensive CPU - Engagement problems
Ok time to explain another controversial topic in the context of ZBeautiful Battles and the changes I made to them.

Within the Ship_Behavior.txt file you will find the three basic behaviors for all PC controlled ships. (Default, Aggressive & Defensive). The most important defining variables of each behavior are formation_distance, return_to_formation_distance, attack_move_pattern & passive_move_pattern. Of these, the most defining of them all is formation_distance.

This is how ZBeautiful Battles Ship_Behavior.txt currently looks :::

ship_behavior = {
name = "default"
preferred_attack_range = median
formation_distance = 15
return_to_formation_distance = 15
collision_awareness = 0.75
attack_move_pattern = orbit
passive_move_pattern = orbit

ship_behavior = {
name = "aggressive"
preferred_attack_range = min
formation_distance = 7
return_to_formation_distance = 7
collision_awareness = 0.50
attack_move_pattern = charge
passive_move_pattern = charge

ship_behavior = {
name = "defensive"
preferred_attack_range = max
formation_distance = 20
return_to_formation_distance = 20
collision_awareness = 0.75
attack_move_pattern = follow
passive_move_pattern = orbit

In Vanilla, the values for formation_distance are pitifully small (like 2-4 for each behavior). This is THE MOST important change that ZBeautiful Battles makes. Using much larger formation_distances are what make ZBeautiful Battles' battles beautiful.

The three CPUs used together and the different ship sizes / speeds all help space out battles because they close to different distances and do different things. The aggressive CPU does exactly what its attack / passive move pattern tell them to do... Charge the enemy and veer off at the last minute hugging the target. The default CPU stays at mid range and orbits around its target trying to maintain a range of 15 (The formation range is not equal to the same number of units in weapon range - it is larger). The defensive CPU inches forward taking pot shots at its target and tries to stay at 20 range on the edge of battle, "following" its target and orbitting away if the target gets too close.

Now the problem arises with Defensive CPU and the attack_move_pattern follow. It doesn't follow stationary targets very well. (Causes buggy behavior). It follows enemy ships pretty nicely, just barely keeping them within range firing from as far away as possible and it looks great in action, especially with a larger ship.

This problem is exacerbated greatly by using the smallest ship size (corvettes) with the smallest weapons (lasers / autocannons). In my mind, and in vanilla settings as well, the Defensive CPU should retain its "follow" command and should stay on the edge of a battle firing its longest range weapons. It should mainly be used on larger ships that naturally have more medium and large weapons which have greater range.

Someone people, however, want to use defensive CPUs for small ships and that is fine. But you cannot combine those small ships / defensive CPUs and the shortest range weapons in the game apart from point defense. It just won't work properly! Unfortunately, the CPUs are not dynamic in nature and they will not work with their preferred_attack_range taking into account the weapons that are slotted and adjusting to their range limitations. So you have to choose a number for formation range that allows for ALL weapon / ship size combinations in the game.

It just so happens that formation_distance = 20 is nearly the maximum value you can use and have small slot autocannons / lasers (with my weapon range boosts) fire on stationary targets properly. BUT, the larger the fleet of defensive corvettes with short ranged weapons, the more problems ships in the back will have reaching the target (i.e. they will not fire at all).

There are only two solutions for this problem. One, reducing the formation_distance of Defensive computers but this will cause cruisers and battleships with defensive computers to close in much more as well as the corvettes with short range lasers (causing more clumping problems as well) and just generally looking odd.

Two, change the defensive computer attack_move_pattern / passive_move_pattern from follow to orbit. This will cause the defensive CPU to behave exactly like the default CPU but at a slightly longer range because in my mod default maintains a 15 range and defensive a 20 range. This can cause more clumping as well because each ship chooses its own individual target and sometimes they decide to choose the enemy all the way in the back of their formation, causing that ship to close in on their assigned formation_distance and just looks odd on a supposedly Defensive computer.

I have struggled, experimented and tested different combinations of attack / passive move patterns and formation / engagement ranges and the best compromise between all these different variables and their dynamic is what you see above.

TLDR Don't use defensive computers with corvettes AND the shortest ranged weapons out there or things won't work right. Atleast slot them with missiles or torpedos if you want long range defensive stand off behavior. If you don't just slot Aggressive or Default CPUs and they will attack / move properly. In my mod Default CPUs also have bonuses to keep them competitive with defensive & aggressive CPUs so you are not forced to pick a better buff, rather you should choose the appropriate behavior for your ship design.

I thank you all for understanding and until Paradox either fixes preferred attack range / adds other variables or gives us more variables to play with we have to work with what we have at our disposal and the limitiations inherent in their design.
Last edited by Blackthorn; 22 May, 2016 @ 11:26pm
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Showing 1-4 of 4 comments
InfinityArts 22 May, 2016 @ 11:58pm 
The rangefinder mod decouples behavior and combat computer stats. I made a compatibility patch to get it working with Beautiful Battles, you can get it here:

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=689096817

For everyone that's hopelessly in love with defensive corvettes.
Blackthorn  [developer] 23 May, 2016 @ 12:04am 
Yea I linked to the range finder and your compatibilty patch in my mod description. That is one definite solution. :)

Definately more knowledgable modders then myself. I am just a tweaker!

Cheers!
Moonglow 29 May, 2016 @ 3:56am 
Civilian Ships use the default behavior i guess? That explains why the transport ships charge into range now. Maybe its an idea to add another behavior for balanced behavior of warships. So Civilian ships can keep the stock behavior.
I got 1984'd 14 Jun, 2016 @ 6:16am 
Agreed with above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Also, missile corvettes still cannot reach static targets with defensive computers since max weapon size for corvettes are medium. I have never tried torpedos however.

Defensive computers on corvettes are very tempting because of the evasion, but honestly strike corvettes are better with aggressive computer, especially in large groups. Screen corvettes should definitely use defensive computers.

Even with aggressive computers though, engagement happens way too early - meaning, weapons fire too late. Either shorten the engagement range or increase weapon range a bit more.
Last edited by I got 1984'd; 14 Jun, 2016 @ 6:35am
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