Stellaris

Stellaris

No Clustered Starts
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Taw  [developer] 6 Jun, 2016 @ 6:06am
Files changed by this mod
This mod functions by making two major changes in two places:
  1. Changes the number of clusters to 1. The center of this cluster is set to 0 distance from the core, and the radius is set to cover almost all of the galaxy.
  2. The ideal distance between empires is increased massively. This setting applies to all galaxy sizes and is set to be the same as the radius of a Huge galaxy. The result of this is that empires are spawned as far from one another as possible, since the ideal distance can rarely be met. The minumum distance is also increased to always give some space between empires.

The mod can also be found on github: https://github.com/Potawto/no-clustered-starts


Here is a complete list of all the files changed by this mod, accurate as of 26 Apri, 2017 (Patch 1.5 Banks). The fundamental changes detailed here remain the same in 2.0, but if you need help with any of this feel free to reach out to me.

Today, May 10, 2023, right after 3.8 (the Paragons DLC) came out, figured I'd update it again, seeing as they changed the name of a file a couple patches ago and I haven't touched this post in years! (base.txt -> galaxy_shapes.txt)

As of September 12, 2024, right after 3.13 (Vela/Cosmic Storms), this is all essentially up to date. There may be some number tweaks in the live mod, if the exact values are important to you I suggest double checking the downloaded mod files or the GitHub link.

This was a nice change as it made some settings settings scoped to each galaxy shape instead of global, specifically the distance between empires. In the past, some shapes had issues that resulted in compromises in the distance values. Now these values can be set separately for each shape. For best results each shape should be tested and the distance values tweaked for each. I have not done this yet.


(The "map" folder can be found in the Stellaris base install directory.)
  • ./map/galaxy/galaxy_shapes.txt
  • ./map/setup_scenarios/huge.txt
  • ./map/setup_scenarios/large.txt
  • ./map/setup_scenarios/medium.txt
  • ./map/setup_scenarios/small.txt
  • ./map/setup_scenarios/tiny.txt

Here are the changes made to each file:

./map/galaxy/galaxyshapes.txt


This change is essential. For each galaxy shape in the file, make the following change. The text after the # is just a comment and has no effect. The two pairs of numbers determines how far apart normal empires and fallen empires are spawned apart from each other.

ideal_sq_dist_between can be thought of as the maximum distance they are spawned apart, this basically means that if there is plenty of room the empires will be spread evenly up until this distance. The general idea of the mod is to make this number very big to get the game to keep pushing empires as far apart as possible.

This used to be much bigger than it is now, due to some game-breaking glitchy quirks like multiple empires spawning in the same system. This was tested a long time ago and I believe had something to do with some of the galaxy shapes. Now that these settings can be set for individual galaxy shapes separately, I think the numbers can be revisited and tweaked to get better results across the board: larger numbers for simpler galaxy shapes (like eliptical) and maybe mostly unchanged values for "tighter" galaxies (the ring shaped used to cause problems, for example).

countries = { ideal_sq_dist_between = 5625 # 75*75 Ideal square distance between countries min_sq_dist_between = 2500 # 50*50 Min square distance between countries } fallen_empires = { ideal_sq_dist_between = 15625 # 125*125 Ideal square distance between countries min_sq_dist_between = 5625 # 75*75 Min square distance between countries }
to
countries = { ideal_sq_dist_between = 202500 # 450*450 Ideal square distance between countries [NCS] min_sq_dist_between = 10000 # 100*100 Min square distance between countries [NCS] } fallen_empires = { ideal_sq_dist_between = 30625 # 175*175 Ideal square distance between countries [NCS] min_sq_dist_between = 625 # 25*25 Min square distance between countries [NCS] }


./map/setup_scenarios/*.txt

A number of essential and nonessential changes are made in these files. There is one file for each of the 5 galaxy sizes. Some of the numbers are different, but the changes are otherwise the same. I will use medium.txt as an example.

NONESSENTIAL:
num_empires = { min = 0 max = 18 } #limits player customization
to
num_empires = { min = 0 max = 32 } #limits player customization

NONESSENTIAL:
fallen_empire_max = 3
to
fallen_empire_max = 6

This simply allows you to spawn more AI empires and fallen empires in your game by making the sliders during galaxy creation go to a bigger number. Does not have anything to do with spreading empires evenly, and trying to spawn too many of either can cause issues.

It was just a requested change a long time ago.


ESSENTIAL:
Lines 13 to 18 changed from
cluster_count = { method = one_every_x_empire #method = constant value = 1 max = 6 } cluster_radius = 120 cluster_distance_from_core = 250
to
cluster_count = { # method = one_every_x_empire method = constant value = 1 } cluster_radius = 320 cluster_distance_from_core = 0

This is one of the key, magic changes. The game normally creates a number of clusters based on how many empires are spawning. For this mod to work, we set the number of clusters to 1 regardless of how many empires there are. We then set the cluster to be very big and centered on the center of the galaxy. All normal empires will now be part of this one cluster and their placement dictated not by clusters but by the distance between empires set in the galaxy_shapes.txt file above.

The cluster radius is another setting that has had many tweaks and eventually got a compromised value. If the cluster covered the entire galaxy, empires would constantly be spawned in the fringiest dead-end systems. This was exacerbated on some shapes.

To give empires further from the core more space, I set the cluster radius to to be about 20% shy of the galaxy radius. Systems are more sparse further from the core, so giving them a bit more space ends up fair-ish. This is another setting that is very tweakable but since this setting cannot be changed for specific shapes I think some compromise is inevitable.



-----

Please let me know if you know of a better way to do any of what this mod does. There is a lot of fog covering the details of modding, any tips would be welcome.
Last edited by Taw; 12 Sep, 2024 @ 1:51pm
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
kinngrimm 6 Jun, 2016 @ 7:43am 
Haven't looked at the orignal file^s yet, so the questions may seem mute to the initiated ^^

Is by this ideal_sq_dist_between ment the ideal starting distance between empires?
Would't that and the min distance be needed to be setted depening on galaxy size and what we define by the empire slider count in the setup window?

When you overwrite value with _num_empires is that where you get the formentioned coreelation?


What is the cluster mentioend in cluster_distance_from_core?
Is it refering to a cartography aspect of the galaxy or are the empires which are bundled together in vanilla as cluster ment by that?

I have another mod installed which enables to have core planets and star lanes to them.
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=689808162

At first installation that mod and this together worked flawlessly, sadly not anymore.
I still got core planets, but your mod is either inactive or the first of both to be loaded considering your earlier explantion in the comment section.

EDIT: found a 3rd installed mod :) which may cause this conflict i experience
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=683326728
Last edited by kinngrimm; 6 Jun, 2016 @ 8:17am
Taw  [developer] 6 Jun, 2016 @ 9:02am 
Is by this ideal_sq_dist_between ment the ideal starting distance between empires?
I believe so, yes.
Would't that and the min distance be needed to be setted depening on galaxy size and what we define by the empire slider count in the setup window?
As far as I understand, vanilla Stellaris is balanced in such a way that the amount of space given to each empire at the start is not affected by how much space is in the galaxy as a whole. No matter how big or small the galaxy is, the minimum amount of space needed for an empire to be able to function/expand/be fun remains the same. Same is true for ideal distance.

What is the cluster mentioend in cluster_distance_from_core?
A cluster in this context is a cluster of empires, the clusters this mod "removes." Vanilla Stellaris spreads out clusters of empires around the core, not too close to the core and not too close to the far edge. I set this to 0 and the size of each cluster to the galaxy size to, basically, give 100% overlap of clusters and hand off all empire spacing responsibility to the minimum and ideal distances set elsewhere.

At least, that's my understanding. Based on testing with this mod, seems to be how it works.

I have another mod installed
I will take a closer look, but at first glance they seem to modify the same files my mod does. Unfortunately, Stellaris seems to load mods in no particular order. From what I have seen, you can't tell Stellaris which one to load first or predict which one it will choose.
Taw  [developer] 6 Jun, 2016 @ 9:10am 
Galaxy 2.0: Core Systems conflicts with No Clustered Starts, as we modify the same files. However, the mods change different lines in the files.

You can disable my mod and make the edits as described above to Galaxy 2.0, to get the functionality of both mods.
kinngrimm 6 Jun, 2016 @ 9:35am 
Originally posted by Taw:
...the mods change different lines in the files...
I have ahd both of your mods active befor and they worked fine together. So i guess there would be no need for that, if i interpret it right that even though both mods use the same files, only the lines which are different to the vanilla files would be added to the active code. So if the script interpreter goes line by line through mod by mod, there is no interference, no conflict, but if he would just use the complete latest file, then he would overwrite what was done before by another mod. So i trust yours and the Galaxy mod sofar they don't mess things up, as i said they worked before together fine.
What about the Biased mod? It removes/overwrites things in a way so entire planets(and/or systems?) are not created. May that mess with distances calculations?
Taw  [developer] 6 Jun, 2016 @ 9:50am 
Unbiased Systems should be compatible.
kinngrimm 7 Jun, 2016 @ 6:44am 
Would you mind if i would use yours and the listed mods to merge them in a new one? I know you said i could change the lines arcodingly, but there is not nessearily implied i would be allwoed to use that in a mod of my own.
Are there any steam workshop rules i would have to consider if i do that?
I know it would be good form and all to notify allways anyone of those i would intend to use their mods in such a merged mod, but some are rarely online or nether update hteir mods, some don't care about that at all and some are pretty adament when it comes to their project of pride ^^
I would give credits, but i am hesitant to always make contact with the mod developers as they could just say no, even if it would be obvious that they themselves are not the first once to have had an idear like theirs. Their are after all several mods out there doing the very same thing.
What is your stance on all of that?
Would you want to be co-author?
Malignant 7 Jun, 2016 @ 2:16pm 
Originally posted by Taw:
Galaxy 2.0: Core Systems conflicts with No Clustered Starts, as we modify the same files. However, the mods change different lines in the files.

You can disable my mod and make the edits as described above to Galaxy 2.0, to get the functionality of both mods.

I'm looking into your mod now so we can make them compatible, some of my subscribers asked for this and I really like this idea - I enjoy a little more exploration room myself.
Taw  [developer] 7 Jun, 2016 @ 7:16pm 
Just let me know when it's posted, I'll add a link to my mod's description.
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