Heya, absolutely loving your mod so far, and I was a huge fan of DeI as well.

Anyway, if you weren't aware already, some folks on reddit did some massive testing with regards to how armor, armor pen, attack and defense skills, charge/fatigue, etc actually work in game. Some of their findings are very interesting!

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4m9sdw/how_melee_attack_and_defense_armor_and_damage/

There's some really interesting things in there. How melee attack/defense scale with each other, how even low amounts of armor can block pretty much *all* non-armor piercing weapons, how cavalry impacts ignore armor, etc.

There's also some specifics they touch on, (like halberdiers apparently attack 33% slower than they say they do? idk)

Anyway, stuff you might already be aware of, but potentially quite useful for a modder.

I'm a huge tabletop fan and have played since 5th edition, so bringing things closer to my nerd roots is always my goal. My only real gripe so far has been that cavalry charges feel somewhat lackluster, and that potentially the AI's units can regroup way too many times on higher difficulties.

In tabletop, of a unit of chaos knights charged into the front of basic empire state mooks they'd come probably annihilate them in one go.

Anyway, loving your mod so far. Thanks!

After playing around for a bit, I feel like ranged units get tired too quickly. I suggest that you decrease the fatigue rate for all ranged units by a little bit.

duck_bird, yes I am aware of the most things out there :) They do not change that drastically from game to game, but I already noticed some differences. They brought back attack intervals from Rome 1, which means that some units attack more ofthen then the others. Standard is 1 attack each 3.8 seconds, but there are few units, like Halberds that do 1 in 5 seconds.

For the cavalry I might just increase their charge speed a bit as charge damage increses with it.

Also in this game units with exhaustion also lose their armour, although it is not stated in the UI.



NateRate, this was something I noticed too. I wanted to change it yesterday but forgot to include it.

Hey, i just wanted to say that i believe the morale changes has made some quest battles which are the part of the game i enjoy most frankly rediculous. In particular the main one which ive spent a day trying to work out if there is a way to beat it (mostly on hard, easy doesnt seem to make any difference) is the thorgrim quest 'armour of skaldour'.

The trolls are hard countered by your flamethrowers while your quarrelers focus down the giants but the numbers of them make you lose out by attrition. The trolls run away, regenerate and come back for seconds meaning as the battle progresses there is just too many to handle.

The other thing ive also noticed is the slayers of the dwarf army do nothing againt the large units, they just die even in a one on one (or as close to it as ive managed in the middle of battle). Think they might need a bit more of a specific boost in that area.

Morale changes in theory should make it even easier as I've added harshes penalties to units. As for the Slayers, I've already increased their stats but I can boost them more.

Found an exploit. With the nerf on the city tower ranges, you can cheese sieges from safety with artillery, taking out the gates and bombarding the enemy units on the walls and the towers can't reach you.

Originally posted by AlexF:

Found an exploit. With the nerf on the city tower ranges, you can cheese sieges from safety with artillery, taking out the gates and bombarding the enemy units on the walls and the towers can't reach you.

I wouldn't call that an exploit. That's the whole point of siege artillery, to attack our opponent while staying safe. This creates the choice of does the defender stay back and suffer losses, do they drop off the walls to stay safe, or take to the field and try to attack the artillery.

Alex, that is the entrie point of artillery in sieges.

I think the duration of "routing" when units run out of combat when broken should be increased

Ranged units simply run away, regroup in no time and start to shoot back as if nothing happened, so your only option is to is to chase them 24/7 which is definitely an issue on higher dificulties.

I think that if a terrorgheist jumps into a pack of goblins and breaks them,they shouldnt be mentally ok and combat ready not even minute after that as if nothing happened :"D

Originally posted by kam2150:

Alex, that is the entrie point of artillery in sieges.

Originally posted by NateRate the Narrate:

Originally posted by AlexF:

Found an exploit. With the nerf on the city tower ranges, you can cheese sieges from safety with artillery, taking out the gates and bombarding the enemy units on the walls and the towers can't reach you.

I wouldn't call that an exploit. That's the whole point of siege artillery, to attack our opponent while staying safe. This creates the choice of does the defender stay back and suffer losses, do they drop off the walls to stay safe, or take to the field and try to attack the artillery.

Yes I know. But the AI always makes the worst choice and keeps his units on the walls. If you keep a standing army of 4-6 mortars that you bring as support to every siege, it makes them trivial. I'm guessing the towers have the strength and range they do in vanilla to shore up poor Siege defense AI. I know Kam and several people hate the vanilla towers, I just wanted to point out nerfing them opens up a cheesy tactic the AI can't handle.

Oh and I just realized I should have posted this in the specific unit balance thread.

Love this mod but kinda wish it did not reduce tower range. Sure you can argue that it is the role of artillery, but towers have artillery themselves (At least when upgraded) and should be able to counter ground artillery.

Siege was kind of designed with this in mind, and it because exploitable. Defending is already pretty hard as is. A few canons will now make walls irrelevant.

I'm considering dabbling in modding for TW. From looking around in the tools and the database I should be able to create a sub-mod for Proper Combat to make Towers vanilla again without too much of an effort. That way, the few of us that prefer it have it as an option. I've modded XCOM 2 and that one was a pain to work with. Modding TW looks to be way more straight forward.

I did not have time to do siege overhaul yet. There will be one, but ridiculous stuff like ARROW towers with damage higher then cannons or giants and range larger then mortartes were rape on logic. With final changes, top levels of course will be able to fire at a longer range, but their damage will be more in line with regular artillery. Also siege towers and rams will have overhauled HP values.

Yep, that sounds like the way to go.

Cool, as long as it scales with tower upgrades when they are equipped with artillery, I am fine with this. Great work!