Stellaris

Stellaris

Improved Space Battles [Balance]
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Ankain  [developer] 9 Jul, 2016 @ 10:36am
Feedback / Suggestions / Ideas
If you have any comments about mod balance, suggestions for new features or just ideas in general to be discussed, share them here.
Last edited by Ankain; 9 Jul, 2016 @ 10:38am
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Showing 1-15 of 149 comments
Demon Hunter 11 Jul, 2016 @ 2:10pm 
I love this mod. In fact, i considder it to be an requirement. The only thing i would like to know is how i can drop the Core Sector count back down to 5. It made sense when they were Core Planets, but now it can feel like there are too many.
Ankain  [developer] 11 Jul, 2016 @ 10:41pm 
Hmm, my view on raising core systems has always been one of necessity. I hated playing the game with a cap of 5 in mid game and having to remember to check back on my new planets every few years, remove it from the sector, and fix the AI mistakes (especially after I research food techs).

With the cap increase I can keep my core 5 systems and have up to another 5 systems I just colonised that I can build up properly before handing over to the AI. I also feel that it's better to have the choice to do so - players who feel 5 cores are enough can always just limit themselves.

Finally, I also don't think this is a mechanic that shifts the game balance too much, considering there are government types that add +5 / +10 core systems and techs that do the same. It simply removes a gameplay quirk that I feel is detrimental to the mid-game.

Thank you for the feedback though. Chances are I will look at the core systems cap again (probably when Stellaris 1.3 is released)
Last edited by Ankain; 12 Jul, 2016 @ 2:11am
Demon Hunter 12 Jul, 2016 @ 3:14am 
Points 1 & 2 are very valid. However the fact that we can have govenments and techs to increase the cap makes it get to the point that we can have up to 15 Core Sectors; each one (potentially) having 4 planets due to Terraforming. It can easily become unwieldy (Though this is much more due to the fact that the Interface needs a lot of work.)

Also, i want to be clear: i was just asking how I could drop my Core Wold Count. I really just wanted to know the file that controls that. Try as i might, i can't find it. I wasn't looking for you to make any changes you didnt want to make, i just wanted to do it myself.
Ankain  [developer] 12 Jul, 2016 @ 4:01am 
Ah, I misunderstood what you meant. There's a variable in common/defines/00_defines.lua that allows you to change the cap. If you want to change it and make sure no other mods can override your setting, make a mod called zzzMod and add the common/defines folder. Then make a file called <anythingyouwant>_defines.lua and put the line
NDefines.NGameplay.CORE_SECTOR_SYSTEM_CAP = 5
in it. Should ensure the setting sticks.
Last edited by Ankain; 12 Jul, 2016 @ 4:01am
Demon Hunter 12 Jul, 2016 @ 6:31am 
I'll give that a try, thanks for your help.
Also Grest work on this mod.
Sargon16 12 Jul, 2016 @ 5:24pm 
Hi, I like your mods, especially the graphics stuff and the extra ships. I'm not so sure about the balance changes, it feels like Tachyon Lances are still better than everything else simply by outranging everything and dealing instant damage.

I did run into one serious problem though. In a very long game I had both the Swarm and Unbidden spawn, at the same time. This is clearly impossible to combat both. The game shouldn't allow both events to spawn. Basically this was an instant game over, I had a 350k fleet on the other side of the galaxy fighting the swarm, when 700k worth of Unbidden appear practically on top of my capital. Game over man, game over. It feels totally unfair to allow both events, so I hope this is just an oversight or bug in your mod. The base game doesn't allow this to happen to my understanding.
Ankain  [developer] 12 Jul, 2016 @ 8:34pm 
Thank you for the feedback!

Tachyons are still incredibly strong, however if you go up against shield heavy fleets (eg. ED invaders), it would be a lot better to upgrade your fleet with some anti shield weapons or just switch to neutron torps insteads.

Having the ED invaders spawn directly on your capital system is mostly bad RNG. They have an extremely strong fleet that guards their portal system and won't move from it. Most of their raiding fleets should be mangeable. If you have a save from before the spawn I would recommend you load it because spawn positions are random.

The end game crises are designed to be extremely difficulty to spice up the end game, but still beatable. I also allowed multiple crises to spawn because it adds to the chaos. If you really, really dislike that idea, there's a standalone version of my mod with only the new ships and doomsday weapons. It does not modify crisis events / FEs or vanilla ship and weapons. I do hope you'll give it another try though, think of them as end-game bosses. You probably won't kill them on your first try.
Sargon16 13 Jul, 2016 @ 10:08am 
So I reloaded my game from the earlier comment (unbidden and swarm) and gave it a real try and I'm convinced that Unbidden are massively, grossly overpowered. I can fight the seperated fleets, if I'm careful and take them out, but the central rift system is impossible. I sent a 370k fleet in there (including titans and leviathans) and got obliterated in seconds. And that is despite using their own OP matter disentigrators against them.

The Unbidden fortresses have way way too much HP, and unbidden weapons do way too much damage. Also putting FTL jammers on the center station in a group of 5 is insane, especially in the rift system where there is a 300k fleet sitting on top it.

And to add insult to injury 3 sets of unbidden spawn?! And the prethoryn swarm has conquered 30% of the galaxy, cause the AI empires are completely useless at fighting the unbidden or fighting the swarm. The FE empires haven't been conquered yet, but they are just sitting there on defense.

For a normal mode game this unbidden event is way way way way WAY too difficult. This isn't psycho insane difficulty! I'd say I'd need at least an 800k fleet to take that rift system, maybe more, and my empire can't possible support more than 400k. And it would take centuries just ot build that many ships, plus I'd have to do this multiple times, AND deal with the swarm.

Sorry for the rant, but after spending several hours banging my head against this, I'm a little annoyed :(

Oh and I'm pretty sure the event chain for an AI rebellion has started in this game, so that's going to happen too... which would be even worse.

TLDR: Unbidden are unbalanced, badly, in normal mode, they need to be tuned way down. Especially the dps of their weapons and the hit points of their fortresses. The current difficulty of the event feels like it belongs in the highest difficulty of the game.
Ankain  [developer] 13 Jul, 2016 @ 10:23am 
Feedback is always welcome!

The unbidden and scourge were nerfed in the July 10th update pretty significantly on normal. However, the nerf doesn't apply if they are already spawned. I'm honestly not too sure why your unbidden sounds so OP. Are you using any other mods that might change weapon stats? I play on hard (where the unbidden deal about 1.6x damage and have 1.6x hp compared to normal) and I've never ran into any difficulty killing an equivalent sized unbidden fleet.

Also, losing a 370k fleet in seconds doesn't sound right. What exactly is the composition of that fleet? Do you have enough meat shields (mostly corvettes, some cruisers and battleships) to ensure your Titans and Leviathans survive long enough to do damage? It would be great if you could post a SS so I can see the fleet make-up and positioning. Maybe I can figure out why your unbidden seems so OP.
Last edited by Ankain; 13 Jul, 2016 @ 10:29am
GeezerCake 16 Jul, 2016 @ 6:59am 
I love these mods. They became part of my default Stellaris install. The one thing I'm not keen on however is the new base maximum energy and mineral storage. It feels like it make techs and buildings that increase the base cap obsolete. +5000 seems like a lot, though I do understand the logic about allowing a larger fleet in the late game. I don't know. Maybe +2500 instead and start with 750 minerals (instead of 600) to get the ball rolling on storage buildings?
Ankain  [developer] 16 Jul, 2016 @ 7:39am 
Thank you! Hmm, I mostly increased the minerals/energy cap because I wanted to increase how long a player could support a war for. I don't think I've ever hit mineral cap until mid game though, so I've never really thought it would affect early game much. By mid-late game minerals drain pretty easily when you're building Titans/battleships so there's still some incentive to build storage silos unless you have really great mineral income. Will probably think about lowering it if it is really necessary.
GeezerCake 16 Jul, 2016 @ 9:16am 
Well, you're the modder - I trust your judgment. Time has not allowed me to test a whole lot of the late-game; my experience is mostly with the early and mid-game. If you say that it's fine later on, I believe you.

But if these techs and buildings are still relevant in the late-game, I'm wondering how they could be more relevant earlier on. Maybe if they provided a larger max-cap bonus, then the bonus from the ISB tech could be lowered. But then, the problem repeats itself with techs and buildings introduced by other mods. Umph...
Zagreb 17 Jul, 2016 @ 5:34am 
Hello and thanks a lot for this very good mod. I apologize for my terrible english, i'm french and i do my best ;)

Like Sargon16 just upon, i find the end game crisis to much difficult. For a example, my last game i was the only empire to fight the prethoryn, i can't bit them realy, just win a batlle and have to flee because they send several fleet as large as mine to defend their system. Maybe 50 years after the prethryn invasion, 2 unbidden portals open, and one in the heart of my empire...
In my opinion, one crisis at time is a good challenge with the improvement of your mod.

And yes i make fleets with meatshield and specialised vessels (tachyon and plasma against scourge, anti shield and torpedo against unbbiden) I try to pull ennemy and defeat its fleets one by one, but its never enough, he rebuilt faster than i can destroy him.

So i wish to know if you can explain how can i modify the values of the end game crisis, i find how to make them happen later, but i wish to make that only one crisis can happen at a time, an the following can only happen after completing the previous.

I wish to change also the composition of thier fleet, make them with less large ship and less armor ( 350 for a prethoryn large ship WTF???) I think the crisis values you set up are good for a multiplayer game, when several players can realy respond to this kind of threat, but when you play solo, double crisis just mean game over. AI is juste too stupid to realy help in this situation. They dont make fleet or just send them piece by piece to death.

I think there is only one mod who can maybe interfer with yours, its "New ship class and more" but i dont think it impact on end game crisis.

To sum up, where can i change invaders fleets composition, and how can i remove the multiple crisis?

Thanks for reading, and thanks for your work ;)
Last edited by Zagreb; 17 Jul, 2016 @ 5:41am
Ankain  [developer] 17 Jul, 2016 @ 5:55am 
If you want to remove multiple crisis and some of the buffs, go to the mod folder, look for the events folder and delete crisis_1.txt and crisis_2.txt. That should nerf the spawns a ton and prevent multiple crises. But it won't affect the ships that have already spawned, you need a save game from before they invaded.
Last edited by Ankain; 17 Jul, 2016 @ 5:56am
Gray Death 18 Jul, 2016 @ 2:11pm 
Any plans on replacing the Titan & Leviathan models in the future? Would be great to see something really new.
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