not bad but what about this:

+20% dmg
-25% prim ammo
-15% firing speed

there doesnt always need to be that much stats and i think this si balanced enough
what do you think?

How about:

+25% Dmg
-25% primary ammo
(Basically what matti suggested)

BUT

-30% firing speed
-20% slower reload time


The idea was a weapon that reward being precise and hitting things with it, instead of pulling it out and holding M1

I feel that the less primary ammo (kinda matti's idea) would punish for missing, but the bonus damage would reward for hitting, oh, and the slower firing speed, so you won't empty the thing in 2 seconds.

+25% dmg
+10% reloadspeed
-30% accurecy

Originally posted by Meh:

How about:

+25% Dmg
-25% primary ammo
(Basically what matti suggested)

BUT

-30% firing speed
-20% slower reload time


The idea was a weapon that reward being precise and hitting things with it, instead of pulling it out and holding M1

I feel that the less primary ammo (kinda matti's idea) would punish for missing, but the bonus damage would reward for hitting, oh, and the slower firing speed, so you won't empty the thing in 2 seconds.

you got some good ideas xd

Originally posted by Meh:

How about:

+25% Dmg
-25% primary ammo
(Basically what matti suggested)

BUT

-30% firing speed
-20% slower reload time


The idea was a weapon that reward being precise and hitting things with it, instead of pulling it out and holding M1

I feel that the less primary ammo (kinda matti's idea) would punish for missing, but the bonus damage would reward for hitting, oh, and the slower firing speed, so you won't empty the thing in 2 seconds.

The thing with those stats is that you'll miss 50% of your shots with any kindof fast shooting gun (SMG, pistol,..) so you'll just end up doing less damage per second / minute with that firing speed penalty.

How I would change those;

• +25% damage bonus
  
• 30% slower reload speed

this would mean that you would hit your shots but with a higher damage output than an smg, but if you have to reload often without doing such damage, you'll be hardly penalized

+100% damage bonus
+50% secondary ammo
Disables primary weapon

SMG Sniper Subclass is here

I would rather have a more accurate smg with a smaller clip size. I feel like everything else listed is a bit too much. Take it down a notch and just make it more accurate, but a low clip size or a slower reload. Dont touch the damage or make it another gimick weapon like the carbine.

+Fires Semi-Auto
+25% damage
+ No damage drop off
+ Spread Recovery time reduced to 1 sec (from 1.25)
-60% secondary clip size (reduced from 25 rounds to 10 rounds)
-50% secondary Ammo.

To me doesn't feel like a smg but more of a Auto pistol

Well, the real weapon that this one is based off is the C96 "Broomhandle" Mauser, which was a semi-auto pistol which was top feeding from stripper clips. So I made my stats with that in mind.

Originally posted by |UESC|General Alden:

+Fires Semi-Auto
+25% damage
+ No damage drop off
+ Spread Recovery time reduced to 1 sec (from 1.25)
-60% secondary clip size (reduced from 25 rounds to 10 rounds)
-50% secondary Ammo.

In TF2 there are technically no Semi-Fire Weapons because you can hold down M1 and it fires "Full Auto", just at a slow rate, like the sniper rifle, pistol, rocket launcher, or shotgun, but I understand that you want a slower fire rate like the revolver or pistol instead of normal smg fire.

Minicrits on headshot
The next shot after landing a headshot (With this weapon or the primary) will be perfectly accurate
20% slower firing speed
30% slower reload speed

Originally posted by -W3E- | Lt.Spuds:

Originally posted by |UESC|General Alden:

+Fires Semi-Auto
+25% damage
+ No damage drop off
+ Spread Recovery time reduced to 1 sec (from 1.25)
-60% secondary clip size (reduced from 25 rounds to 10 rounds)
-50% secondary Ammo.

In TF2 there are technically no Semi-Fire Weapons because you can hold down M1 and it fires "Full Auto", just at a slow rate, like the sniper rifle, pistol, rocket launcher, or shotgun, but I understand that you want a slower fire rate like the revolver or pistol instead of normal smg fire.

Right, that is what I meant, unless a special exception were to be made for such a weapon- required tap shooting could be interesting.

+while worn headshots heal +10 health to the user. (does not require you to hold it)
+slows targets on hit at close range
-25% damage
-10% additional bullet vulnerability on wearer

Alternately:

+slows targets on hit at close range
-15% damage
-10% additional damage vulnerability on wearer

Originally posted by Enter the Domain:

+while worn headshots heal +10 health to the user. (does not require you to hold it)
+slows targets on hit at close range
-25% damage
-10% additional bullet vulnerability on wearer

Alternately:

+slows targets on hit at close range
-15% damage
-10% additional damage vulnerability on wearer

Good.