Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

Sid Meier's Civilization: Beyond Earth

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Astasia 13 Sep, 2017 @ 11:27pm
Little bit of feedback and possible issue.
I will start by saying I love this mod, it has turned a pretty decent game into something amazing for me, and for the past week or two I haven't been able to stop playing. I don't have too much to say about most of the mechanics because they feel spot on.

The possible issue I ran into is the main reason I'm posting this, it seems like there is a mechanic in place for dealing with alien nests and becoming friendly with them. From what I can gather, the moment they switch from green to teal all nests on resources in your territory give you those resources. This doesn't just happen once, it happens every time they switch from green to teal, and the resources are never taken away. Since you have to clear the nests anyway to gain access to the nodes (many of the buildings require having a properly improved resource nearby), this means you can flip between green and teal many times providing you with hundreds of each affinity resource. At least that is what seemed to be happening for me, as my affinity resources were exploding and it seemed to line up with me clearing nests and waiting for the aliens to become friendly again.

As for the feedback, my biggest issue with the mod is Al Falah being a horrible sponser (she is normally my favorite). The +50% affinity spread honestly just doesn't seem to make any meaningful difference. Like on it's own it does essentially nothing from what I have found, I don't notice anything and it doesn't seem to help at all. If I start spamming propaganda missions, that has a much more powerful effect and I can actually start to manipulate population affinity and shut down another sponsers pops. It's a lot of effort for nominal gains though, and I usually just ignore the entire population affinity system and reap the rewards as they come (which is only marginally slower). Her other bonus, having a little bit earlier access to governments is nice for the instant colonization, but then her penalty to external trade routes is super harsh with how mandatory it is to run station routes for the commonwealth resources. All in all it feels like her penalty outweighs her bonuses, playing as her is a handicap.

Now that I think about it Kavitha's +12 health is also on the weak side with how easy it is to get loads of health with his mod. I think I was at like 70 some health at one point in mid-game without much room or need to expand. I think something percent based would be better, maybe even use one of her deals as a base, like -10/20/30% unhealth from population.

The other bit of feedback, I like the protocol concept, but it feels like the military one is the only real option. Getting an extra early colony doesn't help as much because of the way this mod kickstarts new colonies later on, and the early metropolis is super meh with how easy it is to get the tech and how weak a "basic" metropolis is without any buildings to add to it. The combat one adds a permanent bonus you can't get any other way, so it really doesn't feel to me like there's any choice. Could just be my playstyle skewing my perspective though.

That's all I can really think of, been having too much fun playing.
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Showing 1-3 of 3 comments
Ryika  [developer] 14 Sep, 2017 @ 3:38am 
Originally posted by Astasia:
I will start by saying I love this mod, it has turned a pretty decent game into something amazing for me, and for the past week or two I haven't been able to stop playing. I don't have too much to say about most of the mechanics because they feel spot on.
Thanks!


Originally posted by Astasia:
The possible issue I ran into is the main reason I'm posting this, it seems like there is a mechanic in place for dealing with alien nests and becoming friendly with them. From what I can gather, the moment they switch from green to teal all nests on resources in your territory give you those resources. This doesn't just happen once, it happens every time they switch from green to teal, and the resources are never taken away. Since you have to clear the nests anyway to gain access to the nodes (many of the buildings require having a properly improved resource nearby), this means you can flip between green and teal many times providing you with hundreds of each affinity resource. At least that is what seemed to be happening for me, as my affinity resources were exploding and it seemed to line up with me clearing nests and waiting for the aliens to become friendly again.
Ah right, thanks for reporting this. Unfortunately, that's a bug in the base game, not caused by this mod. I wanted to try a few things to fix that, but forget about it. No promises that it can be fixed, but I'll give it a try later.

Originally posted by Astasia:
As for the feedback, my biggest issue with the mod is Al Falah being a horrible sponser (she is normally my favorite). The +50% affinity spread honestly just doesn't seem to make any meaningful difference. Like on it's own it does essentially nothing from what I have found, I don't notice anything and it doesn't seem to help at all. If I start spamming propaganda missions, that has a much more powerful effect and I can actually start to manipulate population affinity and shut down another sponsers pops. It's a lot of effort for nominal gains though, and I usually just ignore the entire population affinity system and reap the rewards as they come (which is only marginally slower). Her other bonus, having a little bit earlier access to governments is nice for the instant colonization, but then her penalty to external trade routes is super harsh with how mandatory it is to run station routes for the commonwealth resources. All in all it feels like her penalty outweighs her bonuses, playing as her is a handicap.
Station Trade Routes are not included in "External Trade Routes" (which I agree is a bit confusing), "Station Trade Routes" are their own category. So Al Falah should not get a penalty for trade routes with stations.

I do agree their passive spreading bonus does feel rather weak though, and I have an idea on how to change it in the next major version.


Originally posted by Astasia:
Now that I think about it Kavitha's +12 health is also on the weak side with how easy it is to get loads of health with his mod. I think I was at like 70 some health at one point in mid-game without much room or need to expand. I think something percent based would be better, maybe even use one of her deals as a base, like -10/20/30% unhealth from population.

The other bit of feedback, I like the protocol concept, but it feels like the military one is the only real option. Getting an extra early colony doesn't help as much because of the way this mod kickstarts new colonies later on, and the early metropolis is super meh with how easy it is to get the tech and how weak a "basic" metropolis is without any buildings to add to it. The combat one adds a permanent bonus you can't get any other way, so it really doesn't feel to me like there's any choice. Could just be my playstyle skewing my perspective though.
Both of these bonuses work by allowing you to expand faster, and wider, early in the game, that's what they're useful for, not so much for later in the game. As such, I find they're pretty strong. I would even say Kavithan + Free Settler Loadout + Settler from Virtue + Settler from the Colonization Protocol is still among the strongest opening if there's enough alien-free space available, even after Kavithan was changed to no longer have Instant Cities in the last version, because while it it true that cities can be set up rather quickly later in the game, having more cities early allows you to push into those later stages of the tech and virtue tree a lot faster.

The Suppression Protocol on the other hand does nothing if you try to expand peacefully early on. I do agree the Development Protocol is pretty weak though; I might add some free Building Modules in the future, or something similar. Given that it's also the least "active" building I do think it's fine that it's a bit weaker, the gap is just too large.
Astasia 14 Sep, 2017 @ 4:10pm 
Originally posted by Ryika:
Ah right, thanks for reporting this. Unfortunately, that's a bug in the base game, not caused by this mod. I wanted to try a few things to fix that, but forget about it. No promises that it can be fixed, but I'll give it a try later.

Ah sorry, the last time I did a friendly alien playthrough in the base game was probably right around release (before rising tide) and I remember it working differently, it must have changed at some point.

Originally posted by Ryika:
Station Trade Routes are not included in "External Trade Routes" (which I agree is a bit confusing), "Station Trade Routes" are their own category. So Al Falah should not get a penalty for trade routes with stations.

I do agree their passive spreading bonus does feel rather weak though, and I have an idea on how to change it in the next major version.

Oops, I guess the 0s in the tier 1 trade routes were throwing me off. I assumed they were 1s being cut in half to 0.5 and rounded down. Most of my games have been as Al Falah and I must not have been paying attention when playing other sponsers.

Looking forward to that update.

Originally posted by Ryika:
Both of these bonuses work by allowing you to expand faster, and wider, early in the game, that's what they're useful for, not so much for later in the game. As such, I find they're pretty strong. I would even say Kavithan + Free Settler Loadout + Settler from Virtue + Settler from the Colonization Protocol is still among the strongest opening if there's enough alien-free space available, even after Kavithan was changed to no longer have Instant Cities in the last version, because while it it true that cities can be set up rather quickly later in the game, having more cities early allows you to push into those later stages of the tech and virtue tree a lot faster.

The Suppression Protocol on the other hand does nothing if you try to expand peacefully early on. I do agree the Development Protocol is pretty weak though; I might add some free Building Modules in the future, or something similar. Given that it's also the least "active" building I do think it's fine that it's a bit weaker, the gap is just too large.

So the thing I have found is the time it takes to find new locations and push out (clear through aliens) new colonizers is longer than researching the tech and rush buying them yourself. In the meantime you are using extra military/explorers to clear out nests and get alien artifacts to combine into a +20 health boost which is more than enough to last a while. I expand faster if I go miltary and pick up the exporer bonuses than I do if I pick colonizer bonuses, because that just gets me a couple poorly placed colonies right near my start, vs solid colonies with like 3 titanium deposits nearby that all go industrial and pump out wonders.

Again it might just be my playstyle, but I have found having another colonizer on turn 1 or 2 is rather useless and I would just sit on it for a while. I don't play on the highest difficulty though, usually vostok or the one above, and I'm usually still expanding faster than the AIs.
choomba 12 Oct, 2017 @ 3:22pm 
If I may attach myself here instead of opening another thread...

I really enjoy what you did with the aliens. I play now Kavitha all on epic marathon speed with mutated alien. Fast spreading miasma.. Reminds me of good ol alpha centauri.
This gives a much better survival feeling than vanilla BE. Will see how this works out.

I always buy colonizers in the beginning. Energy comes from killing, pillaging , pods and espionage. So this wont block my growing. I agree, the colonzer protocol is not a sustainable option and I see that the AI always takes this option.

Theres this bug from vanilla game wich made it into the mod.
Moving a city makes the Hitpoints from defensive buildings vanish. Unfortunatey your defensive perimeter cant be sold and build a new to fix the problem.That city will then have permanently fewer HPs.
I could live with the fact that moving a city needs to rebuild the perimeter but then it should be razed/sold automatically before moving. (explanation: perimeter is to big to move the city or something like that). Didnt try the other buildings.

Moving a city is sometimes blocked by something invisible. Vanilla had this trenches which cant be passed but here you are totaly surprised that you cant move. This is annoying and can counter your master plan.
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