Store Page
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes
All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos Workshop News Guides Reviews

Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes

Store Page
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes >  Workshop > Tharagon's Workshop > Who's on First (Deutsch) > Discussions
Who's on First (Deutsch)
Description Discussions12 Comments10 Change Notes
CMYK8964 2 Dec, 2016 @ 2:15am
Japanese Word List Suggestion (with Translations)
I am the author of the Japanese manual[fizzystack.web.fc2.com], and would like to suggest a word list. Translations and explanations are given within parentheses.

Note: For the button font, use JIS Z 8903 Medium, downloadable from http://font.kim/jisz8903m0230.zip. For the screen font, use Meiryo.

Display (28)
_____
空白 (Blank)
画面 (Screen)
待って (Wait)
いや (No)
うん (Yeah)
そう (Yes)
OK (OK)
オッケー (Okay)
何もない (There's nothing)
以外 (Except, "igai")
意外 (Unexpected, "igai")
移動 (Movement, "idou")
異動 (Move, Transfer (business), "idou")
異同 (Difference, Discrepancy, "idou")
解雇 (Discharge (an employee), "kaiko")
回顧 (Retrospection, A look back, "kaiko")
懐古 (Reminiscence, "kaiko")
蚕 (Silkworm, "kaiko")
斎藤 * (Saito, a common surname in Japan)
斉藤 * (Another way to write it)
齋藤 * (Yet another writing)
齊藤 * (Ditto)
1 (1, "ichi")
位置 (Position, "ichi")
一 (One, "ichi")
壱 (One (used in bookkeeping), "ichi")
伊地 (a surname and place name, "ichi")

* I feel quite iffy about these four, but they would make communication really challenging, which is the point of this module, honestly.

Buttons (28)
空白
終わり (Finish)
うん
待って
左 (Left)
上 (Top)
真ん中 (Middle)
下 (Bottom)
右 (Right)
いや
間違った (That was a mistake)
オッケー
押す (Press)
わかった (I got it)
絵 (Picture, "e")
あぁ (Ah)
あ～ (Ahh)
あーあ (Ah-ah)
え (Eh?, "e")
何 (What)
何？ (What?)
そう
解雇
蚕
1
位置
壱
一
Last edited by CMYK8964; 2 Dec, 2016 @ 2:15am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 22 comments
Tharagon  [developer] 2 Dec, 2016 @ 6:57am 
Cool, thanks!
Started to implement them and looks good so far. The ingame font can handle japanese characters, haven't started with the manual yet.

Following entries are too long for beeing on a button, without reducing font size
(display has more space):
間違った
わかった
オッケー
Would you like to suggest alternatives for them?

And one idea, which unfortunately doesn't work for the same reason in German, but might work in Japanese, as it is a bit shorter:
I wish I could write something like "bottom right" or "top left" which would be a bit more confusing then just "left" and "right", as there is no "left button" but there is a "bottom left" or "middle left button". What would that be in Japanese? 下左 ?
Last edited by Tharagon; 2 Dec, 2016 @ 9:56am
#1
CMYK8964 2 Dec, 2016 @ 1:51pm 
Originally posted by Tharagon:
Cool, thanks!
Started to implement them and looks good so far. The ingame font can handle japanese characters, haven't started with the manual yet.

Following entries are too long for beeing on a button, without reducing font size
(display has more space):
間違った
わかった
オッケー
Would you like to suggest alternatives for them?

And one idea, which unfortunately doesn't work for the same reason in German, but might work in Japanese, as it is a bit shorter:
I wish I could write something like "bottom right" or "top left" which would be a bit more confusing then just "left" and "right", as there is no "left button" but there is a "bottom left" or "middle left button". What would that be in Japanese? 下左 ?
Could you show me what it looks like the current font? I am very skeptical that the default Japanese font in a non-Japanese game would look any good.

By the way, top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right, middle left, and middle right are 左上，右上，左下，右下，左中央, and 右中央. I advise against these though, since Japanese can distinguish between "the top left button" and "the 'top left' button" quite easily.
#2
Tharagon  [developer] 2 Dec, 2016 @ 4:45pm 
Originally posted by ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ:
Could you show me what it looks like the current font? I am very skeptical that the default Japanese font in a non-Japanese game would look any good.

Here you go! (preview image)[web.personal-webspace.de]. What do you think? The display has a different font, than the buttons, actually, but I don't see a real difference, so maybe they just default to the same font. I had no success in importintg the font you suggested, but I didn't tried it very long, as the current font looked like a good solution to me.

Originally posted by ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ:
By the way, top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right, middle left, and middle right are 左上，右上，左下，右下，左中央, and 右中央. I advise against these though, since Japanese can distinguish between "the top left button" and "the 'top left' button" quite easily.
Ok - you are the expert on that topic ;)
Last edited by Tharagon; 2 Dec, 2016 @ 4:49pm
#3
CMYK8964 2 Dec, 2016 @ 9:45pm 
Originally posted by Tharagon:
Here you go! (preview image)[web.personal-webspace.de]. What do you think? The display has a different font, than the buttons, actually, but I don't see a real difference, so maybe they just default to the same font. I had no success in importintg the font you suggested, but I didn't tried it very long, as the current font looked like a good solution to me.

Nope, looks unacceptable. That font appears to use the Chinese variant of the letters, which is one of the biggest, most common mistakes when adapting to Japanese. In 置 and 解雇 are the differences the most stark.

I can't tell what problem you are experiencing exactly. Both the modules for which I contributed the idea, The Gamepad and English Test, have multiple font files attached, defined, and displayed. Perhaps I can isolate the letters used in my word list and make a font with a smaller size, if the size is the problem? Or maybe I should just rename the font to not have a Japanese name and a non-Japanese name.

TL;DR: That's a Chinese font. It doesn't work in Japanese.
#4
Tharagon  [developer] 3 Dec, 2016 @ 12:40pm 
How about this[web.personal-webspace.de]? I'm using the font you suggested now. Is the font copyrighted or free for use?
P.S. The image is also a reminder for the length problem mentioned above ;)
#5
CMYK8964 3 Dec, 2016 @ 7:49pm 
Originally posted by Tharagon:
How about this[web.personal-webspace.de]? I'm using the font you suggested now. Is the font copyrighted or free for use?
P.S. The image is also a reminder for the length problem mentioned above ;)
The weird thing is that the top left, bottom left, and bottom right buttons still use the Chinese font, as well as partially the middle right. Note that the ends of the letters should be rounded if the correct font is used. The font size problem should be solved using a length function, since the length of the string in Japanese corresponds to the physical length of the string (unless Western/English letters are used).

Additionally, upon closer insection at the font, I've found out that the creator of the font has procrastinated creating the more commonly used letters that are used in my list. I'll have to modify the font and get back to you. Also, I'll have to change the "Saito"s since none of them are supported in the font. :( (Replace them with Q, 旧, 級, and 9.) In the meantime, could you test using Mgen Rounded?
Last edited by CMYK8964; 3 Dec, 2016 @ 7:53pm
#6
Tharagon  [developer] 4 Dec, 2016 @ 11:34am 
Please have a look at this[web.personal-webspace.de]. This font is called rounded-mgenplus-1p-medium. The file size of the font is 10MB though :/

About the string length problem: Reducing the font size where necessary is technically possible, but I would prefer to use shorter phrases. I’m concerned the readability would suffer (e.g. I play this game with an Oculus Rift DK-2 with only 960px horizontal resolution) and in the end the implementation efforts would be smaller, too.
Last edited by Tharagon; 4 Dec, 2016 @ 11:35am
#7
CMYK8964 8 Dec, 2016 @ 4:17pm 
Originally posted by Tharagon:
Please have a look at this[web.personal-webspace.de]. This font is called rounded-mgenplus-1p-medium. The file size of the font is 10MB though :/

About the string length problem: Reducing the font size where necessary is technically possible, but I would prefer to use shorter phrases. I’m concerned the readability would suffer (e.g. I play this game with an Oculus Rift DK-2 with only 960px horizontal resolution) and in the end the implementation efforts would be smaller, too.
That font looks satisfactory, and even supports the Saitōs as far as I know (though if you're concerned with readability the Q-9 set I provided above would alleviate the problem). As for the length problem, 4 letters is a standard word length in Japanese, so it's quite impractical to not support it. It is true indeed that Japanese writing is technically more complicated and has a higher likelyhood of "squashing" in low dimensions, I have rarely ever encountered such a situation personally. I even think the letters are a little too big as they are.

PS: To address the font's size problem, can you try setting the font to Meiryo UI and see if anything changes? Meiryo UI comes with Windows Vista and later, and is narrower than both Rounded Mgen Plus and Meiryo (the regular one).
#8
Tharagon  [developer] 17 Dec, 2016 @ 7:47am 
Hey ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ,
would you like to submit 35 words for the password module, too? See details below!
Originally posted by Tharagon:
EDIT:
I'm also recreating the password module. Would be great if you can also provide a list of 35 words, with exactly five characters each, in your language and a translation of "Submit" (max ~7 characters).
For the German translation I included some of the instruction words like "drück" (press) and "warte" (wait) and some 5 character homophones. The rest is filled with topically fitting words like "Bombe" (bomb), "Draht" (wire), "Angst" (fear), and so on. There are no attempts to produce misunderstandings in the vanilla module, so I leave it as your decision to translate it my way or to keep it like the vanilla module, with 35 "usual" words.
Last edited by Tharagon; 17 Dec, 2016 @ 7:50am
#9
CMYK8964 18 Dec, 2016 @ 8:58pm 
Originally posted by Tharagon:
Hey ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ,
would you like to submit 35 words for the password module, too? See details below!
Originally posted by Tharagon:
EDIT:
I'm also recreating the password module. Would be great if you can also provide a list of 35 words, with exactly five characters each, in your language and a translation of "Submit" (max ~7 characters).
For the German translation I included some of the instruction words like "drück" (press) and "warte" (wait) and some 5 character homophones. The rest is filled with topically fitting words like "Bombe" (bomb), "Draht" (wire), "Angst" (fear), and so on. There are no attempts to produce misunderstandings in the vanilla module, so I leave it as your decision to translate it my way or to keep it like the vanilla module, with 35 "usual" words.
No thanks, Japanese passwords don't really exist. We just use the Latin alphabet.

BTW, did you try my fixes (use Meiryo UI, replace the "Saitōs" with Q, 旧, 級, and 9, change font size from word length)?
Last edited by CMYK8964; 18 Dec, 2016 @ 9:26pm
#10
Tharagon  [developer] 19 Dec, 2016 @ 1:59pm 
Originally posted by ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ:
No thanks, Japanese passwords don't really exist. We just use the Latin alphabet.
Ok, I will use the vanilla wordset for japanese then.

Originally posted by ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ:
BTW, did you try my fixes (use Meiryo UI, replace the "Saitōs" with Q, 旧, 級, and 9, change font size from word length)?
No, not yet. I'm currently finishing the password module. I'll revisit the Cyrillic and Japanese font problems afterwards.
#11
Tharagon  [developer] 29 Dec, 2016 @ 4:45am 
Ok I worked a bit more on the Japanese version.
I was able to extract MeiryoUI, which is indeed narrower than Rounded Mgen Plus. The letters are not monospace so わかった consumes less space than 間違った. The last one is the only one that is still too wide. The Saitos on the other hand are included in both as far as I can see. MeiryoUI is also 7MB big. I had some performance issues, which might or might not be related to the font. I guess filtering the font to only the letters actually needed would solve the problem.
So I would suggest to use MeiryoUI for both button and display and replace only 間違った with something shorter. Would you create a reduced font?
#12
CMYK8964 4 Jan, 2017 @ 5:00am 
Originally posted by Tharagon:
Ok I worked a bit more on the Japanese version.
I was able to extract MeiryoUI, which is indeed narrower than Rounded Mgen Plus. The letters are not monospace so わかった consumes less space than 間違った. The last one is the only one that is still too wide. The Saitos on the other hand are included in both as far as I can see. MeiryoUI is also 7MB big. I had some performance issues, which might or might not be related to the font. I guess filtering the font to only the letters actually needed would solve the problem.
So I would suggest to use MeiryoUI for both button and display and replace only 間違った with something shorter. Would you create a reduced font?
Alright, if you say so, you should replace it with 違う. MeiryoUI is included by default with Windows, so I don't see why you need to extract it and package it...
#13
Tharagon  [developer] 5 Jan, 2017 @ 12:10pm 
Originally posted by ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ:
Alright, if you say so, you should replace it with 違う.
Geat, thank you!

Originally posted by ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ:
MeiryoUI is included by default with Windows, so I don't see why you need to extract it and package it...
I don't know if its even possible to access fonts installed in windows from within the mod, but remember the mod can also be downloaded on a Mac, so in each case it should be shipped along with the mod.
I extracted MeiryoUI from a container fie called Meiryo.ttc, wich included several Meiryo variations, including MeiryoUI. The container is even bigger than the singe font file and also Unity seems to not beeing able to read ttc filed, so I extracted a .ttf file from it.

#14
Tharagon  [developer] 6 Jan, 2017 @ 2:12pm 
Hi ΛKIΓΛ SΘΓΛ,
I would like to ask for permission to use your translated manual for the Japanese manual pages of this mod.
#15
< >
Showing 1-15 of 22 comments
Per page: 1530 50