The aksu and the sopmod might work well as submachine guns. Generally speaking, I give the ak variants a slight malus to aim, -5 and plus one to shred. Just seems fitting. The ar-15 types I tend to give a 50/50 to plus one and a slight aim boost of +5. Just enough to make them standout from the regular weapons.

The pkm and saw follow similar rules.

I've never gotten the ability cost function to work on what I'd consider a scout rifle, the m-14 and such, but they'd definitely be the right type of rifle to fill that role.

Don't use them beyond their ballistic variants, so magnetic and beam versions I don't really have much to say about. Including the .ini tweaks seems like a moot point, given you made the mod.

All the best and thanks.

Originally posted by food:

The aksu and the sopmod might work well as submachine guns. Generally speaking, I give the ak variants a slight malus to aim, -5 and plus one to shred. Just seems fitting. The ar-15 types I tend to give a 50/50 to plus one and a slight aim boost of +5. Just enough to make them standout from the regular weapons.

The pkm and saw follow similar rules.

I've never gotten the ability cost function to work on what I'd consider a scout rifle, the m-14 and such, but they'd definitely be the right type of rifle to fill that role.

Don't use them beyond their ballistic variants, so magnetic and beam versions I don't really have much to say about. Including the .ini tweaks seems like a moot point, given you made the mod.

All the best and thanks.

The AKS74u and the M4 SOPMOD are assault carbines, so maybe I would give them a slight mobility bonus but weaker damage, -5/-10 aim, or reduce the range signficantly compared to the AK74 and M16A4, respectively.

I've always been a fan of having weapons progress by stopping power as they upgrade. So your G36 would become an M16 which would become an HK416, for example. Or the MG36 into the M249 then into the M60.

I might go through and do that... But with more tiers per upgrade path... Thoughts?

EDIT: I just realized that you don't have the "Upgrades to" variable exposed, so unfortunately I can't set that up :( I would have that working with Krakkah's CV Weapon Pack inis.

Originally posted by Apathy Enrage:

I've always been a fan of having weapons progress by stopping power as they upgrade. So your G36 would become an M16 which would become an HK416, for example. Or the MG36 into the M249 then into the M60.

I might go through and do that... But with more tiers per upgrade path... Thoughts?

EDIT: I just realized that you don't have the "Upgrades to" variable exposed, so unfortunately I can't set that up :( I would have that working with Krakkah's CV Weapon Pack inis.

EDIT: Actually, it might be possible to do this. Open XCOMLW_Overhaul.ini and set SpecialItemTemplateName="Template" to the weapon in question, and set SpecialItemCost to the preferred number. That might solve your problem.

Hmm, I will have to test that

I don't think that's the thing... It's a setting under the templates that you have buried in yours for

CVWPdata_ItemsToUpgrade[1]=CVWPXM177_T2 ;item being upgraded
CVWPdata_ReferenceItemTemplate[1]=CVWPHK416_T3 ;item being created

Though I could never figure out how to get the template to reference the xposed variable :/

Here's some ideas; just theorycrafting at the moment, I want to get a bit further into my LW2 campaign before I decide on exact numbers for balancing sake:

AR15 weapons

• M4 SOPMOD, RU556 and M16A4 maybe gain a bonus weapon mod slot? Could possibly extend to all the AR15 weapons in E3245's library, although a bonus weaponmod slot might be super OP, not sure.
  
  
• M16A4, M16A1 and XM16E1 gain aim and range bonuses. Carry a slight mobility debuff to represent their being in the category of full-barrel length assault rifles. Damage is the same as base assault rifle. Gain range bonuses at distance and maybe a slight aim bonus(maybe).
  
  
• M4 SOPMOD, XM177E2 and RU556 all have range penalites. All gain slight mobility buff just like you suggested E3245.
  
  
• The RU556 could either be a separate carbine, SMG, or upgrade to the above weapons. I'm not sure how to differentiate it stat wise.

Soviet Union weapons

• AK47 and AK74m are both considered full assault rifles. If we want to go with weapon stereotypes, the AK47 can be a highcrit, slight damage buff (3-6 instead of 3-5) rifle with moderate range penalites whilst the AK74m firing a more intermediate cartridge could retain closer to vanilla stats.
  
  
• PKM and RPD gains more magazine capacity than the RPK. However all 3 would have mobility debuffs with RPK being the lightweight with little or no debuff. Its possible there could be a spectrum with the PKM being the 'heaviest' machine gun and the RPD being the intermediate.

Other guns

• The M249 and M60 would again be balanced with more mobility for the m249 and more damage for the m60. Although I'm not sure how much of a mobility penalty weapons like machine guns give in current LW2

I'll keep editing and adding more ideas as I come up with them, once if finally liberate a region and progress through LW2 a bit more I'll try and put up some actual ini edits.

Originally posted by Apathy Enrage:

Hmm, I will have to test that

I don't think that's the thing... It's a setting under the templates that you have buried in yours for

CVWPdata_ItemsToUpgrade[1]=CVWPXM177_T2 ;item being upgraded
CVWPdata_ReferenceItemTemplate[1]=CVWPHK416_T3 ;item being created

Though I could never figure out how to get the template to reference the xposed variable :/

Those template values are useless with LW2, since they changed the way you upgrade weapons.

Originally posted by Kern:

Here's some ideas; just theorycrafting at the moment, I want to get a bit further into my LW2 campaign before I decide on exact numbers for balancing sake:

AR15 weapons

• M4 SOPMOD, RU556 and M16A4 maybe gain a bonus weapon mod slot? Could possibly extend to all the AR15 weapons in E3245's library, although a bonus weaponmod slot might be super OP, not sure.
  
  
• M16A4, M16A1 and XM16E1 gain aim and range bonuses. Carry a slight mobility debuff to represent their being in the category of full-barrel length assault rifles. Damage is the same as base assault rifle. Gain range bonuses at distance and maybe a slight aim bonus(maybe).
  
  
• M4 SOPMOD, XM177E2 and RU556 all have range penalites. All gain slight mobility buff just like you suggested E3245.
  
  
• The RU556 could either be a separate carbine, SMG, or upgrade to the above weapons. I'm not sure how to differentiate it stat wise.

Soviet Union weapons

• AK47 and AK74m are both considered full assault rifles. If we want to go with weapon stereotypes, the AK47 can be a highcrit, slight damage buff (3-6 instead of 3-5) rifle with moderate range penalites whilst the AK74m firing a more intermediate cartridge could retain closer to vanilla stats.
  
  
• PKM and RPD gains more magazine capacity than the RPK. However all 3 would have mobility debuffs with RPK being the lightweight with little or no debuff. Its possible there could be a spectrum with the PKM being the 'heaviest' machine gun and the RPD being the intermediate.

Other guns

• The M249 and M60 would again be balanced with more mobility for the m249 and more damage for the m60. Although I'm not sure how much of a mobility penalty weapons like machine guns give in current LW2

I'll keep editing and adding more ideas as I come up with them, once if finally liberate a region and progress through LW2 a bit more I'll try and put up some actual ini edits.

Some food for thought. Since these weapons will stand on their own, applying vanilla damage values won't work in this instance, since their will be no Laser/Coil tier.

With the weapon megapack, you won't start with every weapon in the inventory anymore, just one weapon. You'll have to find the weapon via the Black Market, or build it yourself.

Originally posted by E3245:

Originally posted by Apathy Enrage:

Hmm, I will have to test that

I don't think that's the thing... It's a setting under the templates that you have buried in yours for

CVWPdata_ItemsToUpgrade[1]=CVWPXM177_T2 ;item being upgraded
CVWPdata_ReferenceItemTemplate[1]=CVWPHK416_T3 ;item being created

Though I could never figure out how to get the template to reference the xposed variable :/

Those template values are useless with LW2, since they changed the way you upgrade weapons.

Gotcha... So if I change what you mentioned, it should work? I haven't actually had a chance to test it.

Originally posted by E3245:

Originally posted by Kern:

Here's some ideas; just theorycrafting at the moment, I want to get a bit further into my LW2 campaign before I decide on exact numbers for balancing sake:

snip

I'll keep editing and adding more ideas as I come up with them, once if finally liberate a region and progress through LW2 a bit more I'll try and put up some actual ini edits.

Some food for thought. Since these weapons will stand on their own, applying vanilla damage values won't work in this instance, since their will be no Laser/Coil tier.

With the weapon megapack, you won't start with every weapon in the inventory anymore, just one weapon. You'll have to find the weapon via the Black Market, or build it yourself.

Ok, makes sense that the weapons are just standalone items then. The only thing I'm not sure about then is how far into the campaign should these weapons be useful? Up to when players get mag/coil weapons? Or do you think the stats of the weapons should be spread so that certain guns are higher-tier than their predecessor (like maybe the M16A1 being a cheaper, ballistic-tier variant and the M16A4 matching mag/coil)?

Originally posted by Kern:

Originally posted by E3245:

Some food for thought. Since these weapons will stand on their own, applying vanilla damage values won't work in this instance, since their will be no Laser/Coil tier.

With the weapon megapack, you won't start with every weapon in the inventory anymore, just one weapon. You'll have to find the weapon via the Black Market, or build it yourself.

Ok, makes sense that the weapons are just standalone items then. The only thing I'm not sure about then is how far into the campaign should these weapons be useful? Up to when players get mag/coil weapons? Or do you think the stats of the weapons should be spread so that certain guns are higher-tier than their predecessor (like maybe the M16A1 being a cheaper, ballistic-tier variant and the M16A4 matching mag/coil)?

These weapon should be useful throughout the campaign, but some weapons should be able to cover two tiers (Conv. version should cover Laser tiers, and Mag versions should also cover Coil tiers), and outstat weaker weapons.

An example would be the AK47 vs. AK74. Since the AK47 uses a bigger caliber (7.62x39mm) than the AK74 (5.45x39mm), the AK47 should do more damage than the 74 version, but be weaker than a Mag Rifle.

Other examples that I quickly wrote up:

M16_CV > XM16E1_CV > M16A4_CV > Mag Rifle > M16A4_MG...

SVD_CV > M40A3_CV > M82A1_CV > etc.

Originally posted by Apathy Enrage:

Originally posted by E3245:

Those template values are useless with LW2, since they changed the way you upgrade weapons.

Gotcha... So if I change what you mentioned, it should work? I haven't actually had a chance to test it.

I haven't gotten a chance to try it, but it should work.

Here's the way I see things : (TL;DR all the way down)

Weapons are separated into categories.
You have SMGs,carbines, assault rifles, battle rifles, LMGs, HMGs, and then "sniper" rifles. Of course the ever present pistols too.

First, SMGs.
SMGs are inherently shorter and lighter than their full-length counterparts and thus give a bonus in Mobility. Firing pistol or custom designed rounds, they have less terminal velocity than ARs, thus resulting in a malus in Damage and in Range.
Some rounds(MP7's 4.6mm, P90's 5.7mm, AKS74U's 5.45mm) have excellent performance despite being fired from an SMGs and should only have the Range penalty (debatable for the 5.45).
Examples : MP7, MP5, P90, Vector Kriss, AK(S)74U, Mk16PDW, UMP45, PP2000


Moving on to carbines.
They are lighter than ARs, but heavier than SMGs. They fire the same intermediate rounds as an AR, but are overall shorter. The round holds a great percentage of the terminal velocity it would have if fired from a full-length barrel.
The only penalty I could see is a range one due to the less than optimal powder burn rate. The bonus they would grant would be a Mobility one, albeit less than an SMG.
Examples : M4 CQBR, AK74U, Mk16 CQB, HK416 in it's 10' version, G36C, USM1, SIG 552


Now, assault rifles.
They fire an intermediate round from a full-length barrel. you can hit a man-size consistently up to 300m, IIRC (in optimal condition and under no stress whatsoever). They would serve as the All-Purpose rifle in my book, with no bonuses, but no maluses either.
Examples : M16A4, AKM, AK74, AR18, ARX160, C7, K2, FAMAS, FNC, HK33


Last before the bullet-vomitting sisters, the battle rifles.
They use full-power rounds, and are usually as long if not longer than an assault rifle.
They're used to grant a user in a formation a bit more reach and power and allow him to hit targets farther away than his comrades. Most battle rifles in the popular culture are seen with scopes.
They would have a bonus to Damage and Range, at the cost of Total Ammunition and Mobility.
Examples : FN FAL, M14, CETME, Mk17, G3, HK417, L1A1, AR10, Type 64


The big guns out there.
LMG's are designed to be used by a solider, sometimes with an assistant, as a squad automatic weapon. Common features are presence of bipod, belt-fed, heavy as hell.
They commonly use either intermediate cartridges or full-power ones.

HMG's are even heavier and most have a tripod. The most known of them is the Browning M2 still in use today. They fire large-caliber rounds such as .50 or 12.7mm.

LMG's would have less Total Ammo but more Ammo per "magazine", would give a malus to Mobility but would have a bonus to Range, Damage and would be able to suppress (duh.).
HMG's would have an even bigger malus to Mobility and Total Ammo, but would have a drastic increase in Range, Damage and would be able to suppress, shred or destroy the environnement.
Examples : MG3, M2HB, Minimi, Mk48, Vickers, Bren, Negev, M240B, PKP, RPK, or even a Kord or DshK


Last but not least "sniper" rifles.
Full-length barrels and sometimes even more, full-power cartridges with special specs, scopes, bipod, the list goes on (at least in popular culture)
First, DMRs. They're "just" battle rifles with a scope and thus I will just point to the the DMRs section.
Dedicated "sniper" rifles are what we're interested in here.
Precise manufacturing and high-power scopes are a standard. They're here to hit a target out of range for most (say from 500m up to 1.5km) and do it consistently.
The terminal ballistics and velocity are amazing, but they have a cost.
Those rifles are not exactly short not light (but some new chassis are solving this issue).
Those "dedicated sniper rifles" would have the biggest Range bonus, along a nice Damage bonus. On the other hand, they bring a big Mobility malus and a Ammo-per-mag malus as well.
Examples : M40A5, L115A3, FRF2, M24, SVD, M82, Hecate II, M200, PSG1, KSVK, OSV-96




So a bit of TL;DR :

SMGS : Mobility ++, Total Ammo ++, Range --, Damage --

Carbines : Mobility +, Range -
AR : ¤
Battle rifles : Mobility -, Total Ammo -, Range +, Damage +

LMG's : Mobility --, Total Ammo --, Range +, Damage +
HMG's : Mobility ---, Total Ammo ---, Range ++, Damage ++

"Sniper" rifles : Mobility ---, Total Ammo --, Range +++, Damage ++

Originally posted by Hykmet_:

Big Post

I think the snipers/DMRs should also have an aim penalty when fired way too close if you equipped a scope. Equipping an ACOG or another scope should negate this effect, but reduce aim when firing at targets at long range.

LMGs should have less accuracy at longer ranges, due to the recoil. but maybe have 4 or 5 ammo for each clip, but reloading takes two actions instead.

SMGs and AR rifles should have the same amount of ammo, or SMGs should have less ammo.

Yes, obivously you're not able to get your sights on target quickly when you have a scope and are close yo your target.

Agree with the Accuracy malus on LMGs. I'd push the Ammo to 6 for intermediate caliber LMGs though.

SMGs use smaller bullet so you can carry more for the same weight. That's what motivated the creation of AR to replace battle rifles as service rifles afterall.
SMGs should have a bonus to Total Ammo carried during a mission, but not a bigger mag (except perhaps for the P90).