exactly... a conversation like this simply would not be possible... by 1999 the NewSpeak dictionary should have been in it's final form, and the language just couldnt support anykind of "small talk" debate or any kind of individual thought.

well, except for the proles, maybe, but the proles are animals.

WoW I thought this was possibly deleated long ago

But *Clears windpipe* 84-04 I think that the prolonged war will bring far to much economic trumoil that will bring a slow anger form the Proles as prices for things start hiking up and many are slowly angry at the lack of conculsive results as they have been in this war for years and as said in the book is that Proles are poorly observed so it's possible that unrest will rise and cause internal issues that would amount creating fear amoung the inner parties of a revolt.

Do the Proles even have jobs? do they work? or can only Party members get jobs, and the rest are in welfare/slavery? (maybe the Proles just have labour jobs, plus there must be forced labour camps all over the place too, and POWs doing labour. Maybe party members get all the desk jobs and supervisor roles)

the Proles outnumber the Party, I think.

I know there was the shop keeper in the book, but he turned out to be some kind of informant. Winstons buys some stuff in the shop.

I kinda wonder where Winston got the money from.. was it a long time horde, or was he selling his razor blades ration on the blackmarket?

I doesnt seem to make sence to me that the party would pay their people, better to just provide them a daily ration of everything they need.

I gotta go back and check and see if anyone pays for the Victory Gin they are drinking in the bar.

but yeah, if there's hope, it would be a revolt from the Proles, but... cynicly any revolt would probably be funded by one of the other Superpowers and well, would be a cryptofascist revolt, meaning nothing would change.

Since the party has 100% saturation in the observation departpment ,and they controll all the communications, it feels like Orwell created a really hopeless geopolitical blueprint.

But truly the faux war will be a large issue in the years as what if there unable to pay,causing mass starvation,

and also the nutaral regions that have lived thourgh various parties moving back and fotrth?

like what the Party is a though nut and what if a real carazy nut gets control of that parties would get the nukes?

Just to add the rise of the internet (IF it happens which might happen say 40% chance and somewhere during the late 2000s) which can bring endless bounds of infomation so the'll have to spend millions of $ to start a great internet firewall.

I see as a whole a unsustainable system that'll run it's self into the ground with mass starvation, newish (By this lands stadards) ideas and pointless wars as those are the killer of empires.

Thge thing is the systems of the nations are not meant to progress, the war is meant to be waged forever in order to maintain the status-quo and keep the populace in line. So 50 years later the world be most likely be exactly the same unless the populace overturned their government.

Truw but I think the war will starve the govement dry

Originally posted by One Winged Supreme Leader Zwei:

Truw but I think the war will starve the govement dry

the war is designed to be the main.. well ... the war is the economic basis of the 3 superpowers. War is all they have, they do not need to trade with anyone else.. (which is why the equitorial regions are so important, alot of the "available" resources are there) So the war can't really drain any energy from the govt, since the war is the govts only way of making money..

maybe it works like this..

forced labor and the citizenry (proles and outter party members... say 97% of the population) do all the work. the work is geared towards the war.. i mean all industry would be geared towards making war stuffs.. with a bare minimum going towards "consumer goods".... but the state has brainwashed the people so that they are basically slaves. There are no "profits" to be made by any industry, since it's all state controlled.. the good stuff and most of the consumer goods go to ruling elite and Inner-Party members.

So, 97% percent of the Earth is kept under slave-like conditions, most willingly due to the War excuse and brain-washing and some nationalisic ideas, i guess withthe Eurasians... The small amount of consuemr goods made go to the ruling elites mostly, that means, with a willing population, they will appreciate an "increase in choco rations by 3 grams" 3 grams of choco is like less than a single square... and that's "per week" as i understand it.

The war has to continue, even though the enemy might change due to convininece, becasue if you do not use up the war equiptment, um, you cant buy more with out storing MASSIVE quantites... and the war economy and the compliance of the civillian/slaves are the only thing keeping the system going...

(um... I'm sure that is not the reason the US has been at war for 20 years now AND has a massive arsenal of surplus.. so much so the govt basically gives surplus military eqiptment to the police)

(...by "making money" i mean... moving energy around convienently)

Originally posted by ⊕ James. V:

Thge thing is the systems of the nations are not meant to progress, the war is meant to be waged forever in order to maintain the status-quo and keep the populace in line. So 50 years later the world be most likely be exactly the same unless the populace overturned their government.

except that the chance for a change or rebellion would be lost, if the Newspeak language was complete and people lost the ability to form "rebellious thoughts"

but yes.... you are right..

imagine the future as the image of a boot stamping down on a human face forever and ever. gloomy stuff.

Yes very true at the point at the fact of most of da humies toil in never ending suffering, but I mean some reasources are doomed to run like Oil like there are meany Scenarios about the Future were Earth has to pretty much depend on other Planets for it's own survival, same with Mann power as there would be Labor shorteages and I think that Comtraceptives are inveted yet.

Due to this I belive that the Boot will keep strong but eventually Man Will bite back when both are weak but the anger of the Lesser Propergandise Paroles rips the boot and rip the monsters of mankind foot off leaving it to die. But only to see why it's weak there's barely any Light to lead them to the path of Enlightenment. As humanity is trap in the cave of the Dark Ages as the can't find the way out as they starve out themselves. An equally sad tales for Aliens to find.

Again this is my opinion about it, and my interpertaion of tale 1984.

Very simple.

The partys very misunderstanding of how language works will cause Newspeak to be a complete failure as people find other ways of communicating things. Each region makes their own dialect of Newspeak and the party is unable to keep up. By now, the idiot that is in charge of Newspeak goes delerious and concludes the minister of war is trying to kill him. He announces this to the proles, claiming the minister of war to be a Goldstein sympathiser.

The entirety of Oceana goes to ♥♥♥♥ because of this. This causes a domino effect causing the other countries to fall into chaos as well.

Well since 1984 is based on USSR and other complete dictators I guess i'd unevietable that there be a few paranoid ones in the eternal internal struggle thus the at might runs this ship down

Originally posted by Polyester™:

Very simple.

The partys very misunderstanding of how language works will cause Newspeak to be a complete failure as people find other ways of communicating things. Each region makes their own dialect of Newspeak and the party is unable to keep up. By now, the idiot that is in charge of Newspeak goes delerious and concludes the minister of war is trying to kill him. He announces this to the proles, claiming the minister of war to be a Goldstein sympathiser.

The entirety of Oceana goes to ♥♥♥♥ because of this. This causes a domino effect causing the other countries to fall into chaos as well.

Newspeak is designed... well no, most of the words in the English language are "eliminated" or their meaning had been changed. (for instance.. both the words "love" and "sex" have different meanings in Newspeak, than they have in our English.) There is a Newspeak commitee that publishes a new dictionary every year. The 11th edition, which is the next installment in Winston's story, is only going to be half an inch thick. There would be no "regional dialect" since everyone is taught from the same book.... of course the proles might have their own dialects... I kinda got the impression that the proles dont use Newspeak.

"Free" in Newspeak, does not mean "freedom" or "liberty".... you cant say in Newsepak... "I want to be free to express my thoughts"... but you would still be able to say "this dog is free of fleas"

so... the longer that there is a tyranny of language, the less the population is able to form "individual thoughts" or "thoughtcrime"... the idea of changing the language is to make "thoughtcrime" impossible.

Originally posted by Derrick Moore:

Originally posted by Polyester™:

Very simple.

The partys very misunderstanding of how language works will cause Newspeak to be a complete failure as people find other ways of communicating things. Each region makes their own dialect of Newspeak and the party is unable to keep up. By now, the idiot that is in charge of Newspeak goes delerious and concludes the minister of war is trying to kill him. He announces this to the proles, claiming the minister of war to be a Goldstein sympathiser.

The entirety of Oceana goes to ♥♥♥♥ because of this. This causes a domino effect causing the other countries to fall into chaos as well.

Newspeak is designed... well no, most of the words in the English language are "eliminated" or their meaning had been changed. (for instance.. both the words "love" and "sex" have different meanings in Newspeak, than they have in our English.) There is a Newspeak commitee that publishes a new dictionary every year. The 11th edition, which is the next installment in Winston's story, is only going to be half an inch thick. There would be no "regional dialect" since everyone is taught from the same book.... of course the proles might have their own dialects... I kinda got the impression that the proles dont use Newspeak.

"Free" in Newspeak, does not mean "freedom" or "liberty".... you cant say in Newsepak... "I want to be free to express my thoughts"... but you would still be able to say "this dog is free of fleas"

so... the longer that there is a tyranny of language, the less the population is able to form "individual thoughts" or "thoughtcrime"... the idea of changing the language is to make "thoughtcrime" impossible.

Yes, that is exactly what they are trying to do. For the reasons I mentioned, it won't work.

Originally posted by Polyester™:

Yes, that is exactly what they are trying to do. For the reasons I mentioned, it won't work.

Thoughtcrime