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Stellaris >  Workshop > LittleRaskol's Workshop > Government Variety Pack (for v3.0) > Discussions
Government Variety Pack (for v3.0)
Description Discussions8 Comments840 Change Notes
LittleRaskol  [developer] 2 Dec, 2018 @ 8:28am
Plan for 2.2
The next patch is going to shake things up to say the least. It will probably change the way a number of modifiers work, possibly even which exist, which will mean that many civics will have to change. Here's how the mod is going to adapt.

Phase 1: Basic Future-Proof

A simple patch that will anticipate what I know is changing is in the works. To be honest, though, until the update drops I won't know how the modifiers my civics use will change. So this is mostly going to be a matter of changing the update number and possibly some government types that I have wanted to change for a while, but didn't want to mess up anyone's existing games for. Sweeping new patches that invalidate old saves are the best opportunity for this.

Expect it to drop on Friday, Dec. 7th at night at the earliest. This is because I'm going to be out of town from Wednesday to Friday... no one told my job that this patch was coming out! But of course, if any of the civics have modifiers that have changed or been removed, it's going to take a bit longer to fix that as I understand the new systems.

Phase 2: Real Adaptation

The weekend of Dec. 8th and Dec. 9th is when I want to really look at all the changes and see what needs to be done with existing modifiers used for my civics. The good news is that the new economy system looks very adaptable, and once I get it, some civics may be due for a change in how they function even if the existing modifiers still work. Seriously, the stuff I'll be able to do with districts and jobs looks amazing, but will take some time for figure out.

Can't guarantee when this will be ready, but I hope that I can get something out on Sunday, Dec. 9th. No promises though!

Phase 3: Megacorp

The actual DLC adds a lot: not just new civics, but a whole new authority type with its own civics. This is going to take the most time to figure out what to do with.

It's also somewhat the future of the mod. The options it opens up provide, in the base game, for things the mod has done for a while so I want to build on that. What exists by Phase 2 will be the shape of the mod for players without the DLC, but many new and existing concepts will make use of the Corporate authority and Shared Burdens civic. But if you don't have the DLC, nothing will be taken away (for example, the Corporate Dominion civic will still exist for megacorp-type governments added by this mod).
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Showing 1-15 of 48 comments
Rough 5 Dec, 2018 @ 7:01pm 
I am excited to see how this mod grows with 2.2 and especially Megacorp. I think we share excitement over how much more complicated it looks like managing pops and politics etc is about to get. And yeah Megacorp is adding a bunch of stuff you already have, which means you can make that stuff even cooler!
#1
Rough 6 Dec, 2018 @ 12:52pm 
After playing some 2.2, I wanted to express my hope that your mod will add less of the +10% sorts of civics, and many many more of the +jobs/+housing/ whole new jobs sorts that give your empire a whole different shape, i.e. what would an empire of vigilante citizens in which everyone reduced crime and enforcers produced amenities (in this case, cool kill trophies or cop shows?) look like?

For instance, I am enjoying how Agrarian Idyll now actually makes an empire somewhat functionally different in a way that stays true to the idea of a mostly-rural civilization whose people delight in the simple things. If anything, I wish Agrarian Idyll was x2 effective (-2 housing from cities, +2 housing to production districts)...you know what I mean?
#2
Hakazin 6 Dec, 2018 @ 2:38pm 
More govenment types would be very nice. Off the top of my head, adapting some of the previous govenments like Syndicalism to use the Megacorp authority would be a good idea, and adding a specific government based around large-scale slavery might be very interesting. Maybe call it a 'Slavers' Aristocracy' or something similar?
#3
centrist_marxist 6 Dec, 2018 @ 7:10pm 
I think because this mod adds a lot of new types of government that don't really fit in with megacorps, I think perhaps a bit of effects could be added affecting relations between megacorps govs and socialist govs. Perhaps if a socialist gov comes to power it nationalizes all corporate branches in the empire upsetting relations with those megacorps.

A colonialist megacorp would also be an interesting one. Basically a megacorp that uses its corporate branches to slowly extend its influence throughout the planet, leeching off its resources. sort of like the real life British East India Company.
#4
centrist_marxist 6 Dec, 2018 @ 7:12pm 
Also, adapting the ancap governments could also be interesting.
#5
LittleRaskol  [developer] 7 Dec, 2018 @ 7:56pm 
Just got back from my trip, looking forward to waking up tomorrow and working on this mod! Thanks for the ideas everyone, just want to say that I am definitely going to be taking a hard look at the +X% widgets bonus civics and seeing if I can do something more interesting with jobs/districts/buildings/strata.
#6
Namazuo "Horse Poop" Toushiro 8 Dec, 2018 @ 7:36am 
A job idea for Syndicalist megacorps would be to do something like gospel of the masses, expect it uses egalitarian instead of spiritualist. Egalitarian pops increase trade value and you build "Union Halls" in your branch offices that increase egalitarian pull.
#7
Rough 8 Dec, 2018 @ 7:40am 
There is a whole thing called Liberation Theology, Namazuo...it's basically Christian Leftist. The pope is a practitioner, for instance. If @Raskol wanted to incorporate it, I'd recommend using the phrases "Preferential Option for the Poor" or "God of the Oppressed" somehow.

Basically, you could either have priests with increased society+amenities, or (what would be really cool) is Worker-strata "Priests"
Last edited by Rough; 8 Dec, 2018 @ 7:42am
#8
Rough 8 Dec, 2018 @ 8:29am 
Other jobs occurring to me for other civics:
Spiritualists:
Ascetics (worker priest with something special)
Warrior-scholars (specialist enforcers with a side of something else)
Sorcerors/Wizards/Masters (ruler administrators with research or anti-crime bonus)
Seers (specialist researcher/priests)

Egalitarian:
Organizers (worker/technician that adds amenities?)
Lawyers (specialists)

Militant:
Chaplains (specialist priest/soldiers)
Skalds

Authoritarian:
Overseers
Knights
Jesters/Fools

Xenophile:
Diplomats

Xenophobe:
Demagogues
Militia
#9
LittleRaskol  [developer] 8 Dec, 2018 @ 8:38am 
I'm getting ready to upload the quick patch, but I have to note sadly that the way the branch office feature is coded limits some modding options I'd wanted to explore. For example, I had wanted to do something like the labor union idea posted above, but as far as I can tell, the closest I could get is a branch office building available only to megacorps with a special civic. The base behavior of the branch offices isn't moddable from what I can see. I might be able to allow non-corporate authority empires to open branch offices (this will require experimentation) but hostile branches seem very tightly tied to the Criminal Heritage civic. There's just no "allow_hostile_branches" check anywhere that I can see, it seems hard coded. So a lot of my ideas might need to be scrapped or at least heavily modified.
#10
LittleRaskol  [developer] 8 Dec, 2018 @ 8:49am 
As a side note, I don't think I'd want to use the Corporate mechanics for Syndicalists. Honestly, I became rather unhappy with that implementation of the concept over time and it's been changed now to "Market Capitalism" while I rethink how to implement the Space Wobblies.

There is conceptual value to using the Corp mechanics to represent a big labor union, but the limitation on hostile branches means that I can't implement it the way I want. Basically, unions expand without asking permission just by organizing workers, but they don't rely on or increase "crime" in any way that makes sense to me. Now, some kind of corrupt "Vanguard Party" that combines Criminal Heritage with a revolutionary-themed civic? That has potential, because revolutionary parties do act in a "criminal" way as far as capitalist states are concerned, and may even fund themselves with criminal activities. But normal above-the-board labor unions would neither (in my view) increase/rely on "crime" nor would they ask permission to set up shop.
#11
Rough 8 Dec, 2018 @ 11:05am 
Hmm that sounds like it's beyond the scope of modding...but it may fall into something with events+edicts, like the way that Caligua Caeser's Rebellion or Politics mods used to work. In those, iirc, you could raise unrest in other empires via edict. The major traditions expansion mod had a tradition or 2 that did the same.

I think if I had to have an argument with PDX, it'd be that they should fill in the wide gaps of fun that a lot of their mechanics almost open up, especially with Megacorps. A trade union "megacorp" would be fun, like you all said. Also, a mechanic to go into the ship production trade, or army production aka mercenaries, or a specifically-focused slaving corp, or a corp that sells robots...

But then filling in holes isn't really PDX's forte. I mean, Hive Minds only have 1 civic that changes functionality, compared to 3 for machines and 2 or 3? for megacorps.
#12
Rough 8 Dec, 2018 @ 11:09am 
Also as an aside, I hope you don't mind me saying that I always found your old civics a bit underpowered. This is because I played with Alphamod's buffed vanilla civics (although he buffed around some of the already OP vanilla civics, didn't buff for buff's sake). That's just my opinion, and I think you know I've always thought this mod was the amazing.
#13
LittleRaskol  [developer] 8 Dec, 2018 @ 11:34am 
I don't mind any sincere criticism. Honestly, I think about this project thematically so much that I worry that the actual game mechanics aren't solid. So maybe there needs to be a buff pass? I'll think about it.

I agree with you about Paradox's design process in a lot of ways. They often seem to sketch out huge swathes of conceptual territory but only fill in a small part of it, in a way. (But this is also to their credit that they are willing to push the boundaries of their own designs so much that it looks like they could do more!) But as a modder I am more annoyed by the inconsistent flexibility. This expansion opened up room for a lot of the existing game to be modded in fun new ways, but the new features are all kept out of reach. What I wanted to see was like:

can_build_branches = true #controls whether you can build branch offices
needs_treaty_for_branch = false #controls whether you need permission for branches
branch_value_scales_with { #properties for trade value to scale with here }
branches_contribute { #things opening a branch office does to a planet here }

As just properties that could be added or changed on civics. The thing is, the branch office interface can still be controlled in the code with a check for the DLC, so I don't fully see the security case for not doing something like this.

On the other hand, I handicap myself because I am very committed to not modifying base game files. Even modifying specific parts of files where I don't have to modify the whole thing bugs me because I worry about compatibility on the specific things I change. So that's on me.
Last edited by LittleRaskol; 8 Dec, 2018 @ 11:37am
#14
Rough 8 Dec, 2018 @ 1:53pm 
That's too bad on the branch office stuff. We'll just have to hope...

Personally, I'd rather you didn't modify core files, either--it's what has kept this mod compatible with everything. Eventually Alpha will come through and give the core stuff a balance pass+increase immersion. But there are still plenty of interesting empires that can need interesting civics to create cool governments without that.

I started a game with Aristocratic Elite today. I have my little nobles mixing with administrators to make my empire stable and "happy", even though my workers live desperate lives. Now my nobles need knights. So I am hoping, for instance, that you can change Chivalry to grant access to specialist knights, whom I suppose would function something like a x2 or x3 buffed worker soldier, or a buff worker soldier+amenities?. Then change your old Traditional Kingdom (I forget the exact gov't name) to require some combo of Aristocratic Elite and Chivalry. Stuff like that could be cool, and way more immersive than anything pre-Le Guin.
Last edited by Rough; 8 Dec, 2018 @ 1:54pm
#15
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