Do you think he should be a democrat?

No. Actually none of the ideologies in this mod aren't accurate

That's not very helpful

yeah try to say what he is and they will have to pick the closest one to it

Its called ALTERNATE HISTORY for a reason.

It's Althistory with a change made 200 years ago, it's likely that none of these people would be alive in this timeline. So if you're gonna include them as ultranationalist you can explain it as him just following a different path in life, no politican is born following any ideology

pilsudski is one thing but anders and sikorski are another. pilsudski dies like a few months in the game once (which isnt engough time do do anything) he dies you have a choice of anders or sikorski, sikorski seem to be demorcatic however ander seem extremely anti-democratic (which pretty sure is false though i dont know much about him so i don't know)

also frankie i am not sure why you are saying poland in the game is racist and supremecist, in the polish ideology there is nothing about racism or opression they are just nationalistic and anti liberal/socialist i quoute form the ideology description


"Rejecting both the anarchy of radicalism (communisum) and the Decadence of liberal constitutionalism, the corporatist seek a "third way" whereby the state, headed by a strong leader, arbitrates between all the organs of the body politic, creating harmony with a firm hand, guiding the nation towards moral regeneration and doing away with petty politicking of democracy"

they are nationalistic, anti-democratic, anti-communist, authoritarian and corpatalist, nothing to do with race

btw i still agree with you with matters such as that pilsudski wasn't facist and was democratic with authortarianism been temporary and he was a good general

i personal think poland should be centrist a good example of this is paretal autocratic poland in fuherreich you have a option to be a centrist belovent dictaroship (though i think poland being democratic or somewhat democratric would be better) or you could become a facist goverment beliving in racial supremecy anyways that is my opinion

I think ultranationalist is 100% accurate ;)

It's alternate history with deliberated background. Practically make Poland main continental contender to change current international system dominated by monarchic and post-napoleonic France, in pursue for hegemony - alto over the game time span there can be many more strong contenders so it's not that only Poland can do it (so basically more or less this mod give Poland starting vanilla position of Germany but in different background). Ultranationalism suite that goal well. Most of malcontents in this thread just didn't read history of world in this alternate history modification (history timeline is sticked for f sake! so go and read), so you don't get it how it's possible that Piłsudski&Poland are ultranationalist here. At the end if you can't stand it then you can change Poland ideology gradually over time while playing (Piłsudski dies in two or three years if I recall correctly and then you can start changing internal political system of Poland - to be honest it's not that easy to stay on ultranationalist road for Poland) - so no problem to abandon ultranationalism...

Originally posted by Bellator:

It's alternate history with deliberated background. Practically make Poland main continental contender to change current international system dominated by monarchic and post-napoleonic France, in pursue for hegemony - alto over the game time span there can be many more strong contenders so it's not that only Poland can do it (so basically more or less this mod give Poland starting vanilla position of Germany but in different background). Ultranationalism suite that goal well. Most of malcontents in this thread just didn't read history of world in this alternate history modification (history timeline is sticked for f sake! so go and read), so you don't get it how it's possible that Piłsudski&Poland are ultranationalist here. At the end if you can't stand it then you can change Poland ideology gradually over time while playing (Piłsudski dies in two or three years if I recall correctly and then you can start changing internal political system of Poland - to be honest it's not that easy to stay on ultranationalist road for Poland) - so no problem to abandon ultranationalism...

Well, You're kind of right, but becuase Poland was liberated by the french during the Napoleonic wars ( only to be slaughered again, this time just by Russia) there would have to be another way to make the Polish people's nationalist. In our timeline, the polish had a surge of nationalism because they had to go through the proccess of Prussification and Russificacion, which led the poles to try thier hardest to retain polish culture. If France truly liberated Poland, then there would be not be any nationalist spark. Because of this, I also don't think that Poland should be Ultranationalist. And if so, use a accurate contender for a Poleish ruler (ex. Bolesław Piasecki A.K.A Coleslaw). Although I really like the reversed Polish-Geramn war ( I'm a Pole, so whenever I see it I T 'S NA T I ON A L ISM T IM E), but i don't think it's very historical.

I think Pilsudski should be a democrat. He did run the country (amazingly may I add) but he ran it for all people in Poland rather than just Poles or a Franco-esque millitary dictatorship run purely for self benefit. here's what i suggest:
Pilsudksi - Democrat
Dmowski - Ultranat
Rosa Luxemberg - Radical

Originally posted by Kacperbb8:

I think Pilsudski should be a democrat. He did run the country (amazingly may I add) but he ran it for all people in Poland rather than just Poles or a Franco-esque millitary dictatorship run purely for self benefit. here's what i suggest:
Pilsudksi - Democrat
Dmowski - Ultranat
Rosa Luxemberg - Radical

but he dosent know anythink about economy he still had basiclly socialist views in trhat mater.GREAT second polish republic is myth created by poles under comunism which have a little common ground with reality .pre war poland was country hited hardest by economic crisis of 1929 in europe and dosent recover before ww2

Originally posted by Srg.Phlogman:

Well, You're kind of right, but becuase Poland was liberated by the french during the Napoleonic wars ( only to be slaughered again, this time just by Russia) there would have to be another way to make the Polish people's nationalist. In our timeline, the polish had a surge of nationalism because they had to go through the proccess of Prussification and Russificacion, which led the poles to try thier hardest to retain polish culture. If France truly liberated Poland, then there would be not be any nationalist spark. Because of this, I also don't think that Poland should be Ultranationalist. And if so, use a accurate contender for a Poleish ruler (ex. Bolesław Piasecki A.K.A Coleslaw). Although I really like the reversed Polish-Geramn war ( I'm a Pole, so whenever I see it I T 'S NA T I ON A L ISM T IM E), but i don't think it's very historical.

In our timeline as you said: Polish people became nationalists (in real meaning of that word, not modern false leftist agenda of changing this word meaning), not ultranationalists (that's choice of author to move polish nationalism more far right). But if they would have their own country (as in this mod), they would became nation in modern term of that word eventually. The same way as French, Italian or German people became modern nations during XIX century. If you need focusing point (like German or Italian wars of unification) then you have it: multiple wars that Poland was involved in, during time span after "liberation" by France. It's when polish nationalism and Polish nation would "create" itself. Not to mention mod version of our WWI that would make it even more obvious for locals who they are. Why Poland in this mod is ultranationalist is obvious for me: after napoleonic France liberation Poland fought multiple wars in the east, defending or trying to re-create Commonwealth by force, but failed (because of Eastern Europe nations growing nationalism resentment towards Poland). Thus turned into more extreme version of nationalism (if recreation of Commonwealth would succeed, then it would be more like US civic nation, as it was in IRP). Poland we have is basically Dmowski dream ;) - not partitioned Commonwealth that lost most of Rus lands and is more or less nationalist driven. I think we can safely assume that ingame Poland is a lot more "polish" than RL IIRP, so also not much of nation minorities. Piasecki is no one really and pointless - in this alternative timeline "polish nationalism" as a Poland driving ideology is basically what Sanacja ideology was for IIRP after the coup, so ruling class ideology (after Piłsudski death you can chose: Sikorski as more moderate leader or Anders as ultranationalist - but surely both are part of "nationalist" ruling class of again: alternate timeline). People don't understand that it's alternate history mod (everything here except some historical figures names and pictures, so for example Piłsudski family didn't had to lose family wealth during partitioning, he didn't had to became socialist as young man and revolutionary sentenced to Siberia, and so on...), thus have issues about Poland/Piłsudski nationalist/ultranationalist. What I miss in this mod is Dmowski figure :/ Because it's alternate history I wouldn't mind making him democrat haha :D
Why do you think such a war isn't historical :>? Btw, nothing here is :P Alternate history after all. Believe me, when Germany unite in this mod, they're strong ;)

Originally posted by MAREK FROM KŁĘBEK:

poland was country hited hardest by economic crisis of 1929 in europe and dosent recover before ww2

you're wrong, Poland did recovered

Originally posted by Bellator:

Originally posted by Srg.Phlogman:

Well, You're kind of right, but becuase Poland was liberated by the french during the Napoleonic wars ( only to be slaughered again, this time just by Russia) there would have to be another way to make the Polish people's nationalist. In our timeline, the polish had a surge of nationalism because they had to go through the proccess of Prussification and Russificacion, which led the poles to try thier hardest to retain polish culture. If France truly liberated Poland, then there would be not be any nationalist spark. Because of this, I also don't think that Poland should be Ultranationalist. And if so, use a accurate contender for a Poleish ruler (ex. Bolesław Piasecki A.K.A Coleslaw). Although I really like the reversed Polish-Geramn war ( I'm a Pole, so whenever I see it I T 'S NA T I ON A L ISM T IM E), but i don't think it's very historical.

In our timeline as you said: Polish people became nationalists (in real meaning of that word, not modern false leftist agenda of changing this word meaning), not ultranationalists (that's choice of author to move polish nationalism more far right). But if they would have their own country (as in this mod), they would became nation in modern term of that word eventually. The same way as French, Italian or German people became modern nations during XIX century. If you need focusing point (like German or Italian wars of unification) then you have it: multiple wars that Poland was involved in, during time span after "liberation" by France. It's when polish nationalism and Polish nation would "create" itself. Not to mention mod version of our WWI that would make it even more obvious for locals who they are. Why Poland in this mod is ultranationalist is obvious for me: after napoleonic France liberation Poland fought multiple wars in the east, defending or trying to re-create Commonwealth by force, but failed (because of Eastern Europe nations growing nationalism resentment towards Poland). Thus turned into more extreme version of nationalism (if recreation of Commonwealth would succeed, then it would be more like US civic nation, as it was in IRP). Poland we have is basically Dmowski dream ;) - not partitioned Commonwealth that lost most of Rus lands and is more or less nationalist driven. I think we can safely assume that ingame Poland is a lot more "polish" than RL IIRP, so also not much of nation minorities. Piasecki is no one really and pointless - in this alternative timeline "polish nationalism" as a Poland driving ideology is basically what Sanacja ideology was for IIRP after the coup, so ruling class ideology (after Piłsudski death you can chose: Sikorski as more moderate leader or Anders as ultranationalist - but surely both are part of "nationalist" ruling class of again: alternate timeline). People don't understand that it's alternate history mod (everything here except some historical figures names and pictures, so for example Piłsudski family didn't had to lose family wealth during partitioning, he didn't had to became socialist as young man and revolutionary sentenced to Siberia, and so on...), thus have issues about Poland/Piłsudski nationalist/ultranationalist. What I miss in this mod is Dmowski figure :/ Because it's alternate history I wouldn't mind making him democrat haha :D
Why do you think such a war isn't historical :>? Btw, nothing here is :P Alternate history after all. Believe me, when Germany unite in this mod, they're strong ;)

Originally posted by MAREK FROM KŁĘBEK:

poland was country hited hardest by economic crisis of 1929 in europe and dosent recover before ww2

you're wrong, Poland did recovered

The closest thing to a polish nationalist democrat would be Dmowski & the Endecja movement....

This is a stupid thread. The mod is DEEPLY alternate history, meaning ANYTHING can happen. The point at which this timeline occurs is set 172 years before the game starts so Stalin could be a Libertarian or Goebells a Communist for all we know.
This mod does keep the general ideology however to make it cooler and more historically satisfying. Whether you like it or not, Pilsudzki was a Polish Nationalist and it is not unlikely that in this timeline he and the Sanacja party would be radicalized to an Ultranationalist standpoint.

tl;dr Arguing for historical accuracy in an AltHis timeline set 172 years before the game is completely useless.