Thank you for taking your time by opening this thread and please forgive the inconvenience.
i was thinking if it's a good idea to implement food as an additional factor for attrition.
(reduces the attrition chance when you have plenty of food in your cities)
or maybe if you pillage a farm it is guaranteed that this unit wont suffer from attrition for a couple of turns. Then i was thinking of other mods which could compliment CPPS by introducing medical units from the "medical civilian units" mod. My goal was to decrease the base heal and the medic promotion from cavalry and footsoldier to make them more medic-mod dependent. I like the idea of supply wagons constantly following your army into battle. However, the medic units introduced by the mod work like a great general with the medic II ability (adjacent units heal 15 points per round) and thats it. I was thinking about a more "interactive" approach and your CPPS inspired the idea to give those medic units "charges". Think of them as missionaries who hold a limited amount of "supply charges" (which greatly increases the healing of adjacent units) once the supply unit has no charges left, it must be "refilled" in your territory/ or friendly city-state, by placing it on a farm. I like the idea of micromanaging your supplies, which have to head back to base once they depleted their goods. And i was hoping if you could tell me if its possible to modify the medic units like this. Another idea would be that archers and other ranged units lose HP once they attacked.
(they deplete ammunition and need extra care and are more supply-dependent) It would make melee units more viable while decreasing ranged effectiveness. I sincerely hope you like those ideas :)

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Am working on 3 different mods right now, and sometimes I'm not sure where I'm at...

There's a lot here in your post to digest. Some of the ideas are interesting (and possible to do), some are interesting (but not possible to do without adding a massive amount of overhead to the game engine, which - if AI civs are impacted by CPPS - would really slow down the wait between turns). Other ideas aren't or shouldn't be doable.


First off, I don't think it's wise to add another mod to complement this one. The entire purpose of this mod is to rework the game's supply system. Suggestions above that help accomplish that are more interesting to me, as far as this mod's focus is concerned. So, I'd like to focus on ways of making the supply system more "realistic" but limit the demands on players who want more of a challenge, but not at the expense of needing a spreadsheet open on another monitor to help play the game.


Here's what I like:

1. Medical Units: I've used civilian medical units in my World at War mods, and they work fairly well. The problem is the AI uses civilian units poorly, which means those units often represent a huge human player advantage (something this AI doesn't need). You have to remember that unit healing rates are the same for all civs. The only alternative to this is to see all healing rates to 0 hit points per turn, and use an LUA function to manage unit healing on a civ-by-civ basis. This will slow things down quite a bit between turns, but probably not too much in the game-breaking category.

Additionally, the interactions between healing promotions is complicated (what to apply and when and under what circumstances), and the presence of other mods with healing features may break the game entirely. I believe it is much better, and less risky, to keep the healing levels quite low, but still positive, and let Medic-type units and other aspects of supply present a "bonus" number of hit point recovery to units at the start of each player's turn. If the AI is not impacted by CPPS, they would get a stock amount that would equate the game's "normal" healing amount. If they were impacted by CPPS, they would use the same rules as human players (or close to it, at least. Giving them more helps the AI compete better.).

I like the idea of "charges" if it works for land units the way a Great Admiral works for ships. It "instantly" adds 50 hit points to all adjacent units. Perhaps with 3 charges total, and with each charge used, they provide less healing assistance to nearby units. Also, Medic Units would have to be trained, they couldn't be purchased. Perhaps a build limit (either flat or based on number of cities).

Creating units that use the GG's "default Unit_AI" will help keep them close to the front, and attempt to protect them, unlike most other civilian units that the AI tends to place in harm's way early and often.


2. Supply Trucks: I can see a use for units like these that could, in CPPS terms, extend supply lines, and lower other CPPS impacts is within X tiles of a given unit. While I like the idea of "charges," I'm not completely sure what a "charge" represents. Does it provide supply for a circle of X tiles, so that any unit in that circle is in full supply (no CPPS effects)? A combat "boost" (temp strength improvement for that turn)? When does the human player press the "go" button (a unit action in game terms), and when they do, what happens?

If we're not careful, the Supply Truck will be redundant with a Medic Unit, so that the Medic isn't really needed. So, I'd recommend keeping "healing" away from the trucks and with the medics, and let the trucks provide some other kind of temporary benefit for combat units.

I'd also recommend that these trucks behave like Missionaries. Once they expend their X number of "supply surge missions" they simply disappear, and need to be replaced. I'd also make a limit of the number you can have, either a flat limit (2-5) or base the number on a factor of the number of cities you own (e.g. 1 truck for every 8 cities, etc.).

Alternatively, the supply trucks could offer both an active bonus (when you hit the "go" button), and possibly a passive bonus. It's also possible to give these trucks "ranks." For example, say the passive bonus of having a truck near a unit means that no unit within 1 tile (adjacent) could be impacted by CPPS. After a certain tech is discovered (or some other kind of event), the trucks reach "level 2" - which means 2 tiles of protection. I'd limit it to about 3 tiles over all (so 3 ranks, possibly), so the bonuses don't get out of hand and completely obviate the CPPS.

It's also possible (again, like Missionaries), to have Supply Trucks not in friendly territory to lose hit points each turn, and in enemy territory they lose even more. Eventually, they'll disappear like Missionaries do, and need to be replaced. What I like about this feature is it adds capability to the game, but without any real need for the player to learn much new. They've seen how Missionaries work. This won't take any time to learn.

And again, proper use of what ever capabilities we slap on the supply truck will represent a massive human player advantage, as there's no real way to "teach" the AI to use them. I'd be interested in ways to balance these trucks out if AI civ both IS and ISN'T using CPPS.


What I don't like:

101. Food in cities improving supply. The term "supply" represents all things a combat unit needs to perform its combat missions. Food is a component of that, but so is ammunition (in most cases), spare parts, replacement troops, etc. I don't think it's balanced to highlight only one aspect that comprises supply and say it makes up for all other aspects. Overall, "supply" is an abstraction, consisting of all of these factors and more. For almost all players, that's about as deep as they want to dive into this concept. You might like the aspects of micromanaging supply, but I'd expect 99.9% of the rest of the civ's players would hate it with a passion. Even the small number of people playing this mod (who would necessarily have an interest in logistics), would also almost universally despise making the supply system a key component of the game that requires active management.

Having said all that, I can see a use for surplus food in extending a supply line from a given city. Maybe an extra tile for each 5 surplus food? Obviously, with an upward bound of something like 2-4 tiles. One could even make an argument that the amount of Faith a city produces could lead to a slight unit performance bonus (an extended placebo effect). Culture? Maybe. Production? Probably. A long way of saying that all the yields of a city could be factored in to the supply line length to the benefits of any unit relying on that city for supply. Yields are: food, production, culture, science, gold, and faith.

102. Pillage currently heals most units, but to me it represents scavenging for supplies (captured materiel, etc.), which is at best a temporary fix. I can easily see how it might help in the immediate future after it is pillaged, but in multi-year game turns, it doesn't seem as useful to me for more than the immediate turn. If you're introducing a "foraging" concept, which in truth most armies employed until Marlborough, that's a different subject and would be quite difficult to implement.

103. I don't think Archer units would need much active supply of ammunition. Most armies of the day carried a large number of fletchers to keep the arrow supply up just fine. During most battles, archers did spend a bit of time gathering used arrows as the flow of battle allowed. It's really not until we get into the "gun" type units where ammo resupply became a key issue concerning combat readiness, even moreso with the ubiquity of automatic weapons on the battlefield.


So - there's room for growth here with the mod, and I believe there are some really good ideas that can be added that make the combat system more realistic, but without presenting the player with a huge learning curve, and also doesn't represent a massive human player advantage.


Here are the initial 4 areas of focus I see that are possible, based on our discussion so far:

1. Medic Units: what are their active and passive bonuses? How many can be used? What is the "AI not using CPPS" counter-balancing bonus for the AI?

2. Supply Trucks: Same questions, basically.

3. Yield-based supply line impacts: How can we factor in excess or base yields into existing supply line formulae?

4. Do we add the concept of "unit type" into CPPS calculations (i.e. do units that require ammunition get hit harder than say units with swords and spears?), and if so, how?

**********************************************************************

That's probably a good starting place for now. These 4 items needs significant expansion to determine how best to implement them with the least amount of pain for players.

Sorry it's me again :P I was trying to translate your mod but unfortunately i wasn't able to find the correpsonding <text> files. Could you tell me how to do it? Thank's for reading!

It's an early mod for me, so it's not as "alternate language friendly" as it should be.

The promotions text keys are here:

C:\Users\user\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\CiVilized Supply - Reinforcements (v 1)\SQL-XML\CPPS Tweaks.xml

Where "user" is the account the game was installed under.

One thing to point out here: "Redball Express" comes from a particular supply route that feed fuel, ammunition and food to Allied (but primarily U.S.) troops breaking out from the Normandy pocket after D-Day (Operation Cobra and beyond). I'm not sure how well that would translate.


Most of the other text a player would see is directly printed (in English) though the Notifications. Those are hard-coded.

I don't think it would take me very long to convert these hard-coded text strings into text keys, that could then be localized through normal game processes.

What I'll do is produce a list of text keys when I update the mod, and post them here. You can reply back with translations that I would then add as an alternate language version. I've done this before on other multi-lingual mods and it's about the best/only way to do this. Otherwise, I'd have to publish an interim version, you'd have to search around to find the keys, then try to decipher what they should look like in the different language - something that is sometimes difficult to do, due to the way Civ5 uses "variable text" in text keys.


Unfortunately, might take a couple of weeks to get to this.


What language were you planning on using?

On the "qualitied units" promotions series (am getting tired of the 1000 character post limit on Steam), so I'm moving the conversation here:

So, to summarize: I'm seeing a series of promotions, and their award points:

1. New Recruits: Awarded to all newly-trained units
- 33% chance of withdraw from melee combat
- Up to 50% damage if forced to withdraw *

2. Provisional Troops: Replaces the "New Recruits" promotion after Drill 2 or Shock 2 awarded
- 15% chance of withdraw from melee combat
- Up to 25% damage if forced to withdraw


3. Proficient Troops: Replaces "Provisional Troops" after any of these promotions awarded: Cover 2, March, Medic, Siege
- 0% chance of withdraw from melee combat
- Receives +5% combat strength vs. enemy units in Open or Rough terrain
- Heals and additional 2 HP per turn

4. Elite Troops: Awarded after the unit receives its 8th (or 10th?) promotions of any kind
- 0% chance of withdraw from melee combat
- Receives +10% combat strength vs. enemy units in Open or Rough terrain
- Heals and additional 5 HP per turn
- Unit will Heal Every Turn, even if it performs an action (makes March redundant for these units)


* I think I know how to do this, via LUA, but will need to experiment to make sure it works. So, I'll leave it in the initial design, but cannot guarantee it will stay in the final design.


Let me know what you think. I'm planning on adding this to the Ancient World at War mod, but it's no trouble to produce an separate mod performing the same function.

I'm very interested in getting the promotion names settled, and any other changes to the "bonuses" these promotions provide.

Thanks!

C:\Users\user\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\
cache
logs
Maps
Modded saves
MODS
ModUserData
Replays
Saves
SceenShots
Text
TransferredMaps

For some odd reason there is no folder called "MODS archive 2017" in my directory
I was hoping i could find something similar like the community patch
MODS\(1)Community Patch\Modules\Events\Text\en_US

And i've already checked MODS\CPPS and found nothing.
I want to translate your mod into german.

Some minor suggestions about the promotion names, what do you think of:

New Recruits - 33%
Disciplined - 15%
Well Disciplined - 0%
The Empire's finest - 0%

The small boni you receive after the 2nd promotion are a bit too much for me but everything else is more than perfect. Many thanks!

Sehr gute...

Sorry about the incorrect link. I organize my mods by year, and that part stayed in. On your system, the link would probably look more like this:

C:\Users\user\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\CiVilized Supply - Reinforcements (v 1)\SQL-XML\CPPS Tweaks.xml

That's the only file in the mod that has any text keys.


The only other places where language is an issue would be in the "Notifications" - those small icons that scroll downward on the right hand of the screen at the start of a human player turn. Those are constructed in various LUA files, and in English only.

I need to convert those bits of text into a text key, then place those keys into a separate file, along with all other text keys. It's considered good form for modders, but unfortunately, this mod was completed long before I knew about such things.

It's not hard to do, but I need to make the time to do so. Right now there are 3 other mods ahead of this one: finishing the AWAW Slavery, AWAW Events, and Hotfix 2 for the main AWAW mod.

Without some kind of bonus for the last 2 promotions, in addition to the 0% withdrawal, there's no reason for having #3 or 4. So, I feel it's important to provide some kind of abilities to seasoned troops, but it shouldn't be very much, as that's what the specific abilities of other promotions are for.

I'm also of the "go big or go home" school of thought in modding: if you don't make a change large enough, the player won't notice it. So, at that point why bother to make any changes?


Looking further on the names - How about something like this:

1. New Recruits: Awarded to all newly-trained units
- 33% chance of withdraw from melee combat
- Up to 50% damage if forced to withdraw


2. Baptized by Fire: Replaces the "New Recruits" promotion after Drill 2 or Shock 2 awarded
- 15% chance of withdraw from melee combat
- Up to 25% damage if forced to withdraw


3. Stonewalls: Replaces "Baptized by Fire" after any of these promotions awarded: Cover 2, March, Medic, Siege
- 0% chance of withdraw from melee combat
- Receives +5% combat strength vs. enemy units in Open or Rough terrain
- Heals and additional 3 HP per turn


4. Praetorians : Replaces "Stonewalls" after the unit receives its 8th (or 10th?) promotions of any kind
- 0% chance of withdraw from melee combat
- Receives +10% combat strength vs. enemy units in Open or Rough terrain
- Heals and additional 6 HP per turn



Seems like a good balance, but more historically colorful naming.

You don't have to be sorry for anything! I REALLY like the new promotion names!
(Baptized by Fire is my favorite, but Praetorians sounds too ancient if you ask me)
But in the end it's your descision alone and im honored for having the privilege in talking to you about this matter! However, theres no CiVilized Supply - Reinforcements (v 1) folder in my MODS directory either :( (The only mod related is the CPPS mod) Mabye it's because im using the Steam version of your mod?

Another thing that comes to mind, although it's not related to our current subject
(forgive me for asking so many stupid questions but i really enjoy talking to you); do you have any experience with unit design? I mean meshes, textures etc?
I'd like to know if it's possible to "remove" certain meshes from a unit? Im currently trying to remove the feather ontop of the longswordsman helmet but i dont really know how this works. Again thank you so much for your time and effort that you've invested into this conversation.
(With your permission, i would like to add you as a friend - so we can exchange informations much quicker)
I hope im not overstepping my boundaries with this but i couldn't resist asking you.
Many thanks.

Praetorians might sound ancient, but remember the promotion sequence is intended for the Ancient World at War mod, so this is intentional.

It is possible to change the value of text strings in-game, one of the few (if not only) database entries that can do this. Every other database value is cached when you first load all the mods. The process isn't difficult, but it is a bit inelegant, resulting in a noticeable 1-2 second "pause" when the update is made.

I can easily see a possibility of renaming Praetorian promotion to something else at the time when the average current Era for all civs hits Industrialization or so - something like "Home Guard" or "Grenadier Guard" or "Household Guard" or "Foot Guard", etc.

The original naming of the promotions is to improve the immersive qualities of the mod. Updating the name of the last promotion can contribute to this quality even more with an update like this.

Not sure what's going on with the mod naming, but the folder that holds the mod on my computer is called, "CiVilized Supply - Reinforcements (v 1)". When I get around to adding the text keys, I'll take a look at this and clean up whatever's broken. Again, this was an early mod for me, and I've learned at least a bit since then...

I cannot create models from scratch, but I can create new units through recoloring existing models, or recombining various members into a new collection to represent a new unit model.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/media/desktop-2021-02-21-14-34-13-03.6481/

If you look very closely at the figure with the whip, you'll see his ears look a bit extended, and shaded oddly. This is because the figure was taken from an Orc fantasy unit, originally a green color. I was able to recolor it into something that looked more human, but the "shadow" provided in the spectral reflection mesh retained its original shape. I reduced it as much as I could through recoloring, but the overall shape can only be changed in the original mesh files.

I tried to do this long ago, but gave up after a while. The tools are antiquated and buggy, and there's probably less than 50 people on the planet who understand them fully.

So, removing the feather is something I could easily do in the texture file, but the spectral reflection file would still render the "shading/shadowing" for the feather, leaving an odd black texture in the same spot. I don't think the result would be very good, TBH.

What I'd recommend instead, is to look through the models at Civ5 or find a mod on Steam (a simple "longswordsman" search on the workshop yields 170+ results - then reuse it to replace the game's model, or for whatever you want it for. The models at Civfanatics are here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/categories/civ5-units.128/


With Medieval units here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/categories/civ5-medieval-era-units.131/


No worries. I'm always glad to work with another "true believer" in Civ5 who wants to do as much as possible to keep it going, breathe new life into it, and find ways of expanding the game play to make the game even more fun to play!