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Chaos

8 Jan, 2022 @ 12:09pm

Compatible with EML & friends

Follow up to a report on the Harmony (redesigned) comment page:

Originally posted by "Sir SheikhsPears":
@Chaos @Holly Water: So, I gave a try to yours version of HarmonyRedesigned.

Unfortunately, I return to the original Harmony - yours is totally incompatible with EML, PA and TA by Quistar.

I have tested the following together:

Extended Managers Lib 1.0.3 (11 updates in 9 days)
Prop Anarchy 0.6.8 (12 updates in 12 days)
Move It 2.9.5 (32 updates in 3 years)
Tree Anarchy 1.3.1 (69!!! updates in 6 months)
Harmony (ie, redesigned, v0.9) (4 updates in 11 months)

This combination seems to work fine. I don't know how to use these mods, but they do show a few new tree anarchy/prop anarchy buttons at the bottom of the screen, and they are clickable. See the Harmony Report for this run[gist.github.com]. I also tested the same mods, but with Colossal Order's harmony, and the behaviour appears identical. There is of course, nothing reported about the health of these mods from Colossal Order's harmony.

I note that Harmony (redesigned) does identify some serious issues with this mod combination, although they don't appear to affect behaviour:

The Move It mod throws two NullReferenceException's on return to desktop/unload, which is likely one reason why this mod cannot be "second loaded"
There are various missing assemblies, of various versions, which means that the authors have an undisciplined approach to versions, ie, they make wrong assumptions about which EML or which MoveIT version they are talking to. All these mods are extremely frequently updated, with very frequent bugs and very frequent bug fixes. They have an undisciplined approach to interface versioning, and it's no wonder that they are unstable individually, and as a set. They are all moving targets built in shifting quicksand. If there are some combinations of versions that work, it's not by design, but by luck. It also doesn't help that you cannot lock down steam, it always updates whenever the authors click "publish", meaning your files get updated willy-nilly without any coordination.

As noted, this combination is very unstable due to the undisciplined approach of the authors. As end users, you are at the mercy of luck and circumstance, and your experience in game will reflect it. It's not something I can help with. Instead, you should demand better quality from your mod authors.

If @Sir SheikhsPears, or anyone else has further information that demonstrate a problem, please provide details, and I will investigate. Until then, Harmony works great with EML and friends.

Last edited by Chaos; 8 Jan, 2022 @ 12:40pm

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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments

Ysharros 8 Jan, 2022 @ 1:44pm

Can confirm. I regularly use all of the above & Harmony (redesigned) together, with the exception of EML, and have no issues other than those caused by my assets-mania.

Chaos

8 Jan, 2022 @ 1:55pm

Originally posted by Ysharros:
Can confirm. I regularly use all of the above & Harmony (redesigned) together, with the exception of EML, and have no issues other than those caused by my assets-mania.

Thank you for your corroboration, but it invites a question: as I understand it, the two "anarchy" mods (2696146766 and 2527486462) require EML, so can they be used without, or are you referring to the distinctly different mod "prop&tree anarchy" (593588108)?

YuLun 8 Jan, 2022 @ 1:57pm

Hi chaos, I'm currently using all these mod and maybe this could help

EML, Prop Anarchy and Tree Anarchy mod, developed by Quistar, aims to improve and extend game's prop and tree framework*. These mods are a drop in replacement of ALL older mods which directly touches the same part of code, for example: ALL prop and tree related mod by BloodyPenguin, older unlimited trees mods, LOD or render fix mods and etc.
Overall, these three mods at least feels better since they are designed to work together and newer (since most people just think Newer is Better)

As you said, your Harmony works good with them. However currently many people (including myself) encounter one issue: "Prop Line Tool" (or PLT) function of "Prop Anarchy"** is buggy.
This function is aimed to replace the original older PLT mod, however it's UI either doesn't show up entirely or cannot hide while function is not active, currently on my device it doesn't show up but with several previous version*** it behaved the other way and blocked up road menu.
Except for that, all other functions just working nicely in-game.

About usage of these mods in Map Editor:

Currently I have two significant issues:

Move it doesn't shows it's toolbox UI properly and some of it's functions is disabled (height alignment, slop smoothing, reset, and maybe more)
Some trees outside central 25 tiles can be transparent until the tile is updated, might be a side effect of increasing tree limits by Tree Anarchy

For the issues reported by Harmony Report:

I haven't took a closer look at these recently, but I'm playing now so I would like to upload a report and full log later on.

Notes:
* : Known future plans includes rewrite 81 tiles mod and automatically generate prop version of trees and vehicles.
** : This function is shared with "Tree Anarchy" therefore problem could be located somewhere else instead
***: Could be version 0.6.1~0.6.3 or all, or maybe just a corruption of another mod since the issue disappeared after I cleaned up some subscriptions and verified local files

Last edited by YuLun; 8 Jan, 2022 @ 1:57pm

Ysharros 8 Jan, 2022 @ 1:57pm

Ohhhh my bad, I saw them in the list and my brain conflated them. Yes, I'm using Prop & Tree Anarchy, not the two discrete ones. Apologies -- it's late here and I should probably get off the computer ;)

Last edited by Ysharros; 8 Jan, 2022 @ 1:58pm

YuLun 8 Jan, 2022 @ 2:26pm

A quick update about log files: Here on Github[github.com]

Last edited by YuLun; 8 Jan, 2022 @ 2:26pm

Chaos

8 Jan, 2022 @ 10:03pm

Originally posted by YuLun:
A quick update about log files: Here on Github[github.com]

Hi YuLun, and thank you very much for the insightful and clear explanation of what these mods do and how they're expected to work; I had no idea. This is the kind of info that allows me to look into a problem and know, at least roughly, what I'm looking for.

I already see Harmony reporting some UI errors. Also, several users report the PLT feature of "prop anarchy" to not work, or not show up, so I think it's the problem with that mod, not related to harmony.

This demonstrates why the "Harmony Report" is so useful, as it pinpoints exceptions exactly, and tracks which mod generated them. This information would make bugs in mods much quicker to find and fix, and would improve the overall quality of mods on the workshop. This improvement is exactly why I designed the "Harmony Report" to begin with, as I believe bug reports which are accurate and correctly attributed directly improve quality. On the other hand, handwavy "compatibility reports" perpetuating hearsay do nothing but build more uncertainty. Yuk.

Thank you both YuLun and Ysharros for your reports. Together, they confirm that whether users choose the older "Prop&Tree anarchy" or the two newer mods that do the same thing, Harmony (redesigned) supports them all flawlessly.