here's a stupid idea for demo

the skipper: primary nade launcher

+when grenade explodes 4 child grenades are sent forward within a 90 degree cone

+/-explodes on direct impact (both primary AND child grenades)

-25% projectile speed
-50% damage on primary grenade
-75% damage on child grenade
-20% blast radius on primary grenade
-40% blast radius on child grenade

and to adress this now, you cannot hit a wall and have the child grenades rebound. we already have a quick acting cluster sticky launcher for that, and since they explode on impact and are sent forward, yeah. no back showers of nades.

here's an old idea that got deleted in one of the purges as far as i've seen.

riot reflecter: heavy primary sheild

+hold alt fire while holding your secondary weapon active to deploy a projectile sheild in front of you (it has it's own health pool with 1000 health charged only by dealing and taking damage in a 1 to 1 ratio)
+20% damage resistance on wearer
+20% faster movement speed on wearer

-no minigun
-doesn't charge on it's own
-cannot attack while sheild is active
-machina can penatrait the sheild
-sheild deals no damage

the knights rushers: demo primary boots

+20% damage resistance
+20% faster charge rate on sheilds
+50% faster movement speed during charge

-15 max hp on player
-20% max overheal on player

...why not instead of just complaining at an idea, how about some ligitamite critasisum? you know instead of "just trash it" or "this is underpowered because MATH AND NO ACTUAL IN PRACTICE TESTING!" you actually offer your take on it in a less "throw it in your face" mannor while still keeping the core concept? please?[/quote]
But they had the same ammo capasity, regardless of their use seperate or in conjunction. Your description made me have to assume that the shotgun magically gained 200 offhand ammo. Which is very annoying in a forum like this, it confuses people!

Because I explained how it goes wrong. I shouldn't need to balance out every weapon myself to identify the problems, you could easily do that on your own. And this weapon truely does have its problems that I have shown in great detail, the mathematics prove that. Even on a conseptual level, a weapon that removes 10% of offhand ammo for itself AND its partner weapon that would math out to produce less overall shots left compared to stock is just obvious for one to see without in-game tests.

My criticm allows you to see the faults or benefits of your weapons. FIX THEM. Because when another person tries to fix other weapons, creative discrepency creeps in and no one would be happy with the final product. My style should allow you and others see minor or major points of concern based on my responce, if every problem was in a monotone, then you could focus on the minor problems and leave in the elephant in the weapon's balance.

Plus how my opinion is not "legitimate criticm" is a real big slap in the face, thanks. [/quote]
1) no....just.....no.... anyone on here with a grasp of basic gaming terms know what a shared ammo pool is.

2) sure you explained how it goes wrong, but never offered anything to correct it and just stuck with the lazy "trash it" excuse because of what you said. that's not critisum. that is refered to as "bitching about something and not doing anything about it."

3) okay, are you a comidian? because that just left me laughing my ass off. you think ANY of the weapons on here are the result of a single persons stats straight? because if you do....well....jokes on honestly on you. serriously, balences, both before implimentation and after are the results of multiple other peoples inputs. their critisisums. REAL critisisums that actually show what's wrong and their take on how to correct it. and while yeah, weapons do end up scrapped like that, it's still because of more than one person or because someone couldn't optimise it and server lagging and crashing happened. or just because they were out right over powered.

4) already apologiesed for it.

side note, apologies on my english...i'm not very good at spelling. to used to auto correct and all that jazz.

pop rocket: soldier primary weapon

+adds a "pop gauge" (alt fire when full grants a single +300% blast radious rocket, but that rocket also ignites people for 5 seconds, and deals -25% damage, and cannot be crit boosted in any way shape or form, and takes 20 seconds to recharge and cannot be ammo box boosted)

-25% fire rate
-15% projectile speed on "pop" rockets
-25% clip size

med transference hypo: medic melee

+on alt fire: draw from your own health pool to fill your syring (up to 100 HP)
+on allies hit: deplete your stored hp
+alt fire doesn't damage your hp regen

-50% damage
-25% fire rate
-alt fire cannot be used while overhealed

russian revolation: heavy scondary shotty

+ up to +30% damage gained as primary ammo runs out (as in it goes from -40% to +30%)
+ all held ammo is directly loaded into the mag

-weapon only holds up to 8 shots total
-40% base damage
-20% slower swap off speed
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the american dream: soldier secondary quad barrel shotty

+30% faster fire rate
+60% increased accuracey
+50% reduced damage falloff
+on kill: reload directly from your reseves instantly

-20% bullets (should keep it around 72 damage per shot at max ramp)
-33% clip size
-30% slower reload speed
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the victory lap: scout primary

+on kill: gain a stack of "winner" (winner stacks grant a 3% fire rate and +15% larger clip size and can stack up to 10 times)
+50% faster swap from speed
+on back shot kill: gain 2 stacks of winner rather than one

-uses shotgun ramp up rather than scatter gun ramp up
-25 max health on wearer

canister cannon :soldier primary launcher

+on hit: explode into 2 child grenades (child grenades have a -50% blast radious and -60% damage penalty)
+child grenades have a -80% auto detonate timer


-75% clip size
-25% blast radius
-75% reserve ammo

the mega shock: spy mine

+on use plants a mine on the ground that deatioates releasing a massive electric shock (that takes 10 hp a second and continues for 15 seconds at the size of a 150% blast radious rocket)

+/- mine deationates automaticly and cannot be manually triggered

-no sapper
-mine CAN BE SHOT and destroyed by ANYTHING.
-mines have a 30 second recharge and a 3 second arm time once they hit the ground.

the candle: pyro flare gun

+afterburn cannot be extinguished

-no on burning player effect since everyhit IS a crit (afterburn deals 60 damage at max, the flare hits for 30, you do the math).
-not an explosive flare
-after burn CAN BE OVERWRITEN TO BURN OUT BY OTHER SORCES