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Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I. 18 Mar, 2014 @ 7:49am
TF.Outpost really needs a pricing baseline.
Rule No.6 sharking. Sharking is defined as manipulating another user into trading/selling a valuable item for 10% or less of its accepted value (or 20% or less for users with less than 200 hours in that game) or any other deceptive trading practice that the staff consider to be against the spirit of this rule. We participate in a network of trading sites that do not tolerate taking advantage of other users for personal gain.


And yet, we have so many trades with horrible prices, obviously, trying to take advantage of people. I am talking things like (b) 1 key for s.shotgun. (b) 1 rec for festives, (s) cheap hats for 4 ref+, (s) 1 key for low tier stranges (fists, equaliser, fireaxe). And no, I am not kidding. These are actuall trades I have seen and would post but no naming and shaming.

Outpost, needs a basic pricing guide, so people can't say : Mah treid, mah rulz, ♥♥♥♥ of or i reprt u.

Other trading sites, have something similar, like for example a hud near the trade that says how much profit will the other person make for said trade (If he is making 158% profit, you know something is wrong). I am not asking for this, just a basic pricing guideline, to define rule number 6.
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Showing 1-15 of 26 comments
† Forgiveness is Everything 18 Mar, 2014 @ 8:01am 
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#1
norby89 18 Mar, 2014 @ 8:31am 
And yet, we have so many trades with horrible prices, obviously, trying to take advantage of people. I am talking things like (b) 1 key for s.shotgun. (b) 1 rec for festives, (s) cheap hats for 4 ref+, (s) 1 key for low tier stranges (fists, equaliser, fireaxe). And no, I am not kidding. These are actuall trades I have seen and would post but no naming and shaming.
Bad prices are not against the rules, how else would prices on items change if everyone was only allowed to trade for the same price? It's a free market and people are free to buy/sell for what they want, within reason of course. Unrealistic trades do get closed.

Outpost, needs a basic pricing guide, so people can't say : Mah treid, mah rulz, fuck of or i reprt u.
There's no need for a pricing guide for that, that's against the rules already.

Other trading sites, have something similar, like for example a hud near the trade that says how much profit will the other person make for said trade (If he is making 158% profit, you know something is wrong). I am not asking for this, just a basic pricing guideline, to define rule number 6.
The sharking rule is mainly set in place for unusual trades (but not only) because that's where +90% of sharkings happen. These people are not in just for profit, they're in for unfair profit by taking advantage of new users who have no idea that what they just unboxed might be worth hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

The examples you've given are just people flipping items for profit and there's nothing wrong about that. It's not unrealistic for someone to quicksell an item worth 2 keys for 1 key when they're in quick need of keys.
#2
Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I. 18 Mar, 2014 @ 9:04am 
Originally posted by norby89:
And yet, we have so many trades with horrible prices, obviously, trying to take advantage of people. I am talking things like (b) 1 key for s.shotgun. (b) 1 rec for festives, (s) cheap hats for 4 ref+, (s) 1 key for low tier stranges (fists, equaliser, fireaxe). And no, I am not kidding. These are actuall trades I have seen and would post but no naming and shaming.
Bad prices are not against the rules, how else would prices on items change if everyone was only allowed to trade for the same price? It's a free market and people are free to buy/sell for what they want, within reason of course. Unrealistic trades do get closed.

""But what about rule 6? The prices can still change with the 20% limit, but not with extreme limits. like double the price of something worth for example, 5 keys""


Other trading sites, have something similar, like for example a hud near the trade that says how much profit will the other person make for said trade (If he is making 158% profit, you know something is wrong). I am not asking for this, just a basic pricing guideline, to define rule number 6.
The sharking rule is mainly set in place for unusual trades (but not only) because that's where +90% of sharkings happen. These people are not in just for profit, they're in for unfair profit by taking advantage of new users who have no idea that what they just unboxed might be worth hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

""Maybe, but that dosen't mean people should be allowed to scam people with such ridicules like 1 scarp for festive, or 1 key for strange firsts.""

The examples you've given are just people flipping items for profit and there's nothing wrong about that. It's not unrealistic for someone to quicksell an item worth 2 keys for 1 key when they're in quick need of keys.

Who said anything about quickselling? I am talking about people buying a S.shotgun worth 2 keys for 1 key, a S.dead ringer for 4 ref, not selling them. I never said anything about quickselling for items.

(b) stands for guy is buying and (s) stands for guy is selling just to clear that out.

Last edited by Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I.; 18 Mar, 2014 @ 9:10am
#3
norby89 18 Mar, 2014 @ 9:34am 
Who said anything about quickselling? I am talking about people buying a S.shotgun worth 2 keys for 1 key, a S.dead ringer for 4 ref, not selling them. I never said anything about quickselling for items.
You entirely missed my point. My point was it's ok to buy (or sell) items for any price as long as it's reasonable and I gave you an example of what falls into that category.
Last edited by norby89; 18 Mar, 2014 @ 9:43am
#4
Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I. 18 Mar, 2014 @ 9:57am 
Originally posted by norby89:
Who said anything about quickselling? I am talking about people buying a S.shotgun worth 2 keys for 1 key, a S.dead ringer for 4 ref, not selling them. I never said anything about quickselling for items.
You entirely missed my point. My point was it's ok to buy (or sell) items for any price as long as it's reasonable and I gave you an example of what falls into that category.

I don't have a problem with quicksellers, that want to get pure fast. Or people buying for 1 ref more, or less.
I have a problem with people, who want to make cheap profit by overpricing items when selling, and undepricing when buying. To the extreme (selling strange fists for 1 key), (buying genuine apsap for 4 ref)

I thought you misunderstood my point because you brought an example of someone quicksellining, something that I never said I had a problem to begin with.
Last edited by Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I.; 18 Mar, 2014 @ 10:04am
#5
BillyTheFish 18 Mar, 2014 @ 10:44am 
I have sold many Strange Shotguns, usually for a key and a half (or thereabouts.)
Reason? I despise the mentality that everyone has to follow Bp.tf like it's the bible; the result of doing so is plain to see - lots of items all selling for the same predetermined price and sitting there unsold week after week. Sorry, but I'd rather undercut all the sheep and take a little less just to get rid of it. Free market economy, people.
If people are asking too much for their stuff, it won't sell. If they are offering too little for someone else's stuff, they're not going to get it.
The best way to improve trading here would be to set time limits on all trades. That will encourage people will be much more focused when they price their items.
#6
norby89 18 Mar, 2014 @ 10:44am 
Keep in mind, prices change all the time due to supply and demand and it's not TF2Outpost's job to police that. If you find an unrealistic or troll trade feel free to report it. Someone selling/buying items for a price you believe is unfair shouldn't be reported though.
#7
Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I. 18 Mar, 2014 @ 12:25pm 
Originally posted by BillyTheFish:
I have sold many Strange Shotguns, usually for a key and a half (or thereabouts.)
Reason? I despise the mentality that everyone has to follow Bp.tf like it's the bible; the result of doing so is plain to see - lots of items all selling for the same predetermined price and sitting there unsold week after week. Sorry, but I'd rather undercut all the sheep and take a little less just to get rid of it. Free market economy, people.
If people are asking too much for their stuff, it won't sell. If they are offering too little for someone else's stuff, they're not going to get it.
The best way to improve trading here would be to set time limits on all trades. That will encourage people will be much more focused when they price their items.


Originally posted by norby89:
Keep in mind, prices change all the time due to supply and demand and it's not TF2Outpost's job to police that. If you find an unrealistic or troll trade feel free to report it. Someone selling/buying items for a price you believe is unfair shouldn't be reported though.

I don't have a problem with prices going up and down to a normal percent.
But some people are outright sharking. Selling strange equalisers for 1 key, buying festives for 1 scarp. These people are allowed to do this, and give a bad reputation to the tfop community (quote http://makeameme.org/meme/lowballers-lowballers-everywhere-203d9u ) because people like these are allowed freely to shark like this and technicaly there are no rules to stop them.

As I said, normal prices with supply and demand are ok, but someone are outrageus.
I don't want nessesarily backpack tf. Just any kind of prising quideline.
Last edited by Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I.; 18 Mar, 2014 @ 12:26pm
#8
HusKy 18 Mar, 2014 @ 1:30pm 
You have never posted a single trade so why are you trying to tell others how they should do it?
#9
Leeroy 18 Mar, 2014 @ 1:43pm 
Don't be silly. We're trading, you're meant to offer less then the asking price, that's how it works buddy. Same thing out in the real world. Watch Bargain Hunt on BBC if you want to see how it works. There are no prices for these items unless you're buying them from the Mann Co. store, only estimated value. We're not in a supermarket, we're trading items.... If you can believe it, that's how it used to be in TF2 trading before this "price check" rubbish was created.
#10
Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I. 19 Mar, 2014 @ 5:18am 
Originally posted by HusKy:
You have never posted a single trade so why are you trying to tell others how they should do it?

I am not trying to tell othes how to do it. If you only read the thread, you would know.

Originally posted by Leeroy:
Don't be silly. We're trading, you're meant to offer less then the asking price, that's how it works buddy. Same thing out in the real world. Watch Bargain Hunt on BBC if you want to see how it works. There are no prices for these items unless you're buying them from the Mann Co. store, only estimated value. We're not in a supermarket, we're trading items.... If you can believe it, that's how it used to be in TF2 trading before this "price check" rubbish was created.

I am not talking about the normal offer less that maniplulates the prices to a healthy level, I am talking about ridiculus offers, and prices obviously meant to shark new people. Also, before this price check rubbish was intruduced, there was no actuall ingame economy. You could get an unusual for a key and a hat for 15. (Extreme examples). Prices go up and down due to demand, but sometimes you know it is just greed. Bad kind of greed.
#11
HusKy 19 Mar, 2014 @ 5:31am 
Originally posted by Vincent Ellthan Valarian ♛:
I am not trying to tell othes how to do it. If you only read the thread, you would know

Yes, you are.
You are also misinterpreting the term "sharking" and confusing it with what's normally called "weak/bad offer".
#12
Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I. 19 Mar, 2014 @ 5:47am 
Originally posted by HusKy:
Originally posted by Vincent Ellthan Valarian ♛:
I am not trying to tell othes how to do it. If you only read the thread, you would know

Yes, you are.
You are also misinterpreting the term "sharking" and confusing it with what's normally called "weak/bad offer".

So, selling strange fists for 1 key, is just a bad offer and by no means sharking?
Or buying festives for 1 scarp and strange festives for 1 ref?

These aren't bad offers. These are outright sharks.
Last edited by Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I.; 19 Mar, 2014 @ 5:48am
#13
HusKy 19 Mar, 2014 @ 6:03am 
You just gave made up examples of bad offers. Once again, this is not sharking.
You are also missing the fact that the person who gets richer is the one being approached, not the other way around. If someone is unable to search the market, it's their choice.
#14
Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I. 19 Mar, 2014 @ 6:06am 
Originally posted by HusKy:
You just gave made up examples of bad offers. Once again, this is not sharking.
You are also missing the fact that the person who gets richer is the one being approached, not the other way around. If someone is unable to search the market, it's their choice.

So, wait, if these I metioned, aren't sharks, then what is? Can you give me an example of what can be considered a shark? (Because wanting 1 key for strange fists and equalisers aren't.)
Last edited by Richard Peterson Ennis, P.I.; 19 Mar, 2014 @ 6:23am
#15
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