Ok people.

1) Outpost is still free to use, calm down.
2) Sneeza created a site which allows hundreds of thousands of people to make profit, so i don't see anything wrong with him trying to make some money off of it.
3) There are about 400,000 regiestered users....You do realize that a server big enough to support that kind of load is quite expensive....

@Sneeza, do you mean hourly bumps or 30-minutes? (not sure if typo or it changed)

@yNOox how isn't it fair?

Really not getting all the hate....although if possible you should work out a way to accept keys as a lot of people cant donate via cash.

@Sneeza
Will there be any additional perks to premium or just the same as donator?

@BackinBlack, the new unusual issue has been solved. It now requires at least 2-3 sales of a new unusual in order to set a price. A price for an old unusual that has been unpriced up until now (some halloween effects) only requires one sale. But in order to set the price on an item which doesn't have a place in the market yet (i.e. everythings all speculation) it requires 2-3 sales to price. 2 sales if they're relatively close, but 3 if the first 2 are completely different (i.e. can't tell which is the outlier).

@Sun, the prices aren't finalized by admins, they decide whether a price is correct or not, which is VERY necessary. A lot of people suggest prices based on what they want to happen, and a lot of voters based on what they want to happen. Hence why most key suggestions increasing the value were negative (even though they were correct), and troll suggestions to lower the price to 2.33 Ref are positive (even though they're incorrect). And i agree with you, backpack.tf should be used as a guideline. When it comes to unusuals, i can usually (9 times out of 10) guess what the price is without checking anywhere just by knowing the market, and the rest of the time i just check OP, i honestly don't use bp.tf for unusual prices--although i do find the price out myself the same way (going through the history of a hat). I personally just don't use backpack.tf for unusual prices because its too hard to keep everything up-to-date, and whenever currencies change so do unusual prices. On cheap unusuals the fluctuation isn't too bad, but it can get nasty on 10+bud hats. BUT, i do however use bp.tf for regular item prices, because its too hard to really keep track of all the items that exist. Based on the appearance, class, and slot of the item i can get an idea of what its worth, but whether its 2 Ref, or 2.33 Ref is really nitpicking, and thats where backpack.tf does its best. Bp.tf's prices are based on averages, so the more an item is traded the more accurate it will be. Plus, regular items don't fluctate all that much (once they're no longer brand new, and assuming nothing changes--i.e. added to a new crate). "that's like going into business but carrying around a handbook that has all your prices for your mechandise/products in it, and every time you need to, you open it and go "hmm." Thats actually very common in the business world.

As for asking around for prices....thats a very dangerous game. A lot of people say they "know" prices, but most of the time don't have a clue what they're talking about. But yes, the best way to price stuff is to either figure out the market, or go on Outpost and track down some recent sales.

Exactly. People need to understand backpack.tf is there to give you a general idea. Don't go quoting it like its the bible. Don't go accusing people of scamming for asking for more or offering less. Don't go on peoples trades and say, "Lower your buyout...you're never going to get it...Backpack.tf says its worth "x". Unfortunately people don't understand this, and its what imo, has really hurt backpack.tf's reputation.

Except quicksells aren't factored into the prices. Quicksells and outliers are ignored when pricing an unusual. And if you think tf2pc is any better youre completely wrong.

Originally posted by {CotB} Psycho Psychic:

Fun fact:

Because it's the Community that makes the PRICE of the suggested Prices for Backpack.tf, And a lot of people trade in Outpost...And We all know how many try to "Quickbuy" stuff...

Yeah, You know where this is going.

Not really sure what you're getting at actually...

Its hard to believe that people would hate bp.tf just because a price was a little off. To be totally honest, i have a feeling its more along the lines of, its cool to hate backpack.tf

My guess is that bigger/more well known traders don't like backpack.tf because it puts a value on their unusual, a value, which prior to bp.tf was completely up in the air. Now theres a resource, which has proof to back up a price. Ultimately resulting in traders having less control over what an item sells for, and eliminating their advantage. I.e. leveling the playing field. So my guess is, these traders don't like backpack.tf because it minimizes potential profit and hurts their bottom line. And newer less experienced traders either flock to backpack.tf as a resource to help them make better traders, or flock to more experienced traders who hate backpack.tf Essentially joining one of the two fan clubs.

Backpack.tf takes a lot of shit for their unusual price list. People complain about how bad/inaccurate it is. But why? Its prices are based on actual sales, thereby reflecting the current market.

I'm not saying that all the prices are correct, as there are close to 10,000 hat-effect combinations, and its based on volunteers devoting their time to update the prices. So, its inevitable that not everything will be accurate, but for the most part things tend to be fairly accurate. Again, some of the prices are pushed off even more due to the way prices are stored.

All-in-all, i think its done its job, and its done it well. Its target market is the same as any other price list. Its meant to be used by the less experienced to prevent them from making bad trades. Unfortunately, its that same userbase, which uses it incorrectly. I.e. accusing anyone who doesn't follow it strictly of being a scammer.

So, all that being said, i'd like to hear others opinions on backpack.tf (specifically the unusual section). Whats wrong with it, and what could be done to improve it. Please, share this around, i'd like to hear a wide range of opinions from as many people as possible.

The issues i see (and TBH, i'm really not sure how to fix it):
1) Backpack.tf is essentially based off of averages. With any normal item that sells there will always be outliers, and backpack.tf ignores the outliers and sets an items price based on the most common value an item is traded for. With normal items this is fine, but unusuals aren't traded frequently enough for this to be 100% accurate. (Think about averages, they tend to get more accurate as the amount of data used increases)

2) Item overpays. Anyone familiar with the unusual market knows thats sellers want an overpay in unusuals. Why should a seller spend time trying to sell an unusual for 3 buds, and then sell it for another unusual worth the exact same (with the same sellability) and have to start the whole selling process all over again? So the vast majority do expect an unusual overpay. However that leads to an issue, unless the person buying is buying because he/she really wants the hat, he/she is expecting to make a profit, but so is the seller. So, these leads to an issue. Is an item overpay really necessary? Well, yes and no. I'm really not sure what the right answer is here tbh...

3) The final problem is the way backpack.tf stores unusual prices (in USD), and because of this prices need to be updated more frequently. However, in order to update prices more frequently they need to have a better system to report old prices, and they also need more volunteers. Unfortunately, there really is no good system for storing prices, whether they're stored in buds/keys/USD. All unusuals fluctuate differently with the market. Some stick to their USD prices, while others stick to their bud prices.

Deff like it better than the old system (a lot less scrolling up and down)

However, it would be nice if the search system would stabilize already. Every time i try to search for completed trades the search fails to go through.

Originally posted by Champelliot:

Your items are stored in the Steam Cloud, unless you actually delete the item out of your BP or trade them away, you can never lose them.

Or if you happen to open tf2 with xmas/holiday crates after they have expired.

Originally posted by Champelliot:

Originally posted by Awesome McCoolName MCT:

And this is the problem with trading. People don't understand that backpack.tf/spreadshit are GUIDELINES. aka NOT exact prices.

This. Arbitrary price guides will be the death of the Mannconomy, they are good as a safety line, so you don't trade a Big kill for an Amby, but they should never be followed exactly.

Sneeza really needs to make that the motd