Well I cannot say much for backpack because I don't particularly care for the site, I'm not wild about how it makes people follow pretty rigid prices and justifies traders who refuse to negotiate. That's another topic for another time though and Outpost does not endorse nor discourage the site from being used.

It all boils down to what the community believes to be truly unrealistic, and that's just an abstract idea and huge gray area here. My unrealistic is not your unrealistic and isn't for probably 99.9% of people. I don't realistically think we can change what unrealistic means because it really lacks the meaning in the first place.

All in all, I still believe that if we changed everything to what you're suggesting, the problem of people making unusual buying trades and just refusing any offer they do not like is going going to happen. I do think it is something that has negatively impacted the community is various ways, but I also believe it's a natural and inevitable thing that just happens.

I'm going back off for a bit though and see if anyone else has opinions. I'm all for trying to help shape the community for the better and love these types of conversations.

I agree with you that in an ideal situation that would be the best way, and I'd much prefer it. But you have to think about what would realistically happen if we did that.

I've noticed little things that just pop up and go around over the now years of trading that has been done in TF2. I remember when the "tentative" offer was very common, and how "price is firm" has really skyrocketed in use over the last year or so when I could say I probably never saw it before that.

Users want to stick with what works, or more likely what they perceive as going to work. I can look into just about any random quickbuy trade and see sometimes dozens of offers, none of them taken because "this isn't a quicksale". Even if we banned quickbuy trades, these same people are going to make unusual buying trades and they're going to decline the same offers because "this is a highball".

Banning quickbuying is pretty much impossible, only because banning it is just banning the word and not the practice. "Quicksales only" will just turn into "Good offers only" trades and really we have done nothing meaningful.

Just to reiterate though, this isn't official position and just my opinion. I can't say which parts overlap with the reasoning behind allowing quickbuy trades and which don't.

We do not believe that we should be in the position of telling traders what they can and can not ask for in their trades. We only disallow troll trades or ones that would more than likely be seen as explicit sharking for obvious reasons.

The weapon to unusual trade is not allowed because it isn't a trade, but a series of trades that is meant to give one person notoriety over time, which is why it is disallowed just like key inflation activism trades, donation trades or services. It is also seen as somewhat misleading as you cannot change what you're trading on the webpage and once that initial weapon has been traded off, the trade needs to be closed.

I'll speak personally because I don't know the other staff members personal opinions and I'll let them speak for themselves, but I was just about as anti-quickbuy as you could be not too long ago. The trades in my opinion add clutter and are very annoying to me. That's not even to mention what some believe they have done to unusual trading. It's a strategy that offers very little chance to actually succeed and when it does, you'd be lucky to get a quicksale on a hat worth more than one Earbud.

The thing is, while it is rare, it is something that happens. It has become a trend in trading and does occur now. We cannot disallow some form of trading because we personally do not like it or find it distasteful.

I'd have to disagree with you in seeing those trades as different. They all had the same purpose of trading your unusuals for others. Regardless of how many you were trading at once, these trades all served the same purpose, just with different quantities.

The wording of the relist rule is the way it is because it needs to be fairly general instead of pointing out specific things not to do. If we went that route, any time someone found a specific instance that wasn't covered (1:1 different than 2:1, 9 trades up for each class but just buying craft hats) they would try to use it as a loophole.

C/O and B/O stand for current offers and buyout, respectively.

Current offers are pretty self-explanatory. Buyouts are the price at which a seller says that they will not try to negotiate to get higher and are willing to sell.

There aren't many terms that are unique to trading, I'd just recommend learning various conversion rates and how decimals might be used. For example, traders might ask for 1.5 keys, which means that they are asking for 1 key and roughly half of a keys value in other common currency item or various items.

Depending on the severity of the offenses, the limit can be a few or just one, though there is definitely a limit.

My best advise to you about wondering how many more bans you can have is to instead plan on avoiding any bans at all in the future.

Originally posted by brake™:

I would really like to donate in items for more slots and autobumb.

This is no longer an option. Do not bump months old threads.

Sorry, but price checks are not allowed on the forums.

The forums are not the place to trade. Please use the site for that.

When dealing with relists, we're only concerned with open trades.

If you close all the trades you currently have with the Soldier's Stash and then open one that contains each item that you might want, then you're fine. Just make sure that your hat is only in one open trade at a time.