Victoria 3

Victoria 3

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Pop Demand Tweak
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31 Oct, 2022 @ 11:12pm
16 Dec, 2024 @ 10:35am
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Pop Demand Tweak

In 1 collection by Ferrous
Ferrous's Tweaks & Whatnot [1.9.2~1.9.7]
43 items
Description
Compatible with 1.9.*. Makes it so more goods can be used for more things, and all consumer goods will always have some demand. Some people just want cake!
Compatible with VTM, load this mod beneath VTM.
Can be installed mid-game.
Affects everyone, AIs included.
Works for all languages

Pop Demand Tweak (PDT) – Features:
1) Consumer Stubbornness – Pops now demand a tiny bit of every applicable good, So, as an example, groceries will always have some demand in a market. This allows industries to be kick started off of pop demands, Fine Art is one such goods that desperately needs this.

2) Artisan Simulation – “Services” is now a limited substitute good for every pop need, partially to simulate the Artisan pop type from Victoria 2; but also, to simulate people like homebrewers, or people that grows opium in their backyard. Other than just providing realism, this will also ease the burden feature (1) may have caused.

3) Expanded Substitution – Many lower tier applications can now use higher tier goods to fulfill it. And many goods are additionally used to fulfill certain needs, where reasonable. This allows for different industries to cover for each other. Combined with feature (1), this also means some of your middle class pops will stubbornly insist on buying luxury furniture.


Mechanical Details
The game's substitution logic is dependent on "Availability" and "Weight" (Crucially, not price)
This logic is then further confined by an explicit market share cap for both maximum (max_supply_share) and minimum (min_supply_share).
This mod makes it so that the min_supply_share of all added entry will be one tenth of the weight where applicable, so, as an example. since groceries now has a weight of 0.5 when used as "basic food", the mod imposes a minimum market share of 5% for Groceries-as-basic-food.
Other the other hand, max_supply_share is set as equal to the given weight.

Additionally, this mod uses the following heuristics to assign the weights to each entry within the 00_pop_needs file.

-Normal Weight: Goods that don't belong in any of the following categories get this by default

-Three Quarters Weight: Transportation specifically is given 0.75 weight and their basegame max_supply_share of 0.75 is kept. This is so when automobile and telephone are invented those new goods will immediately see demands in their respective categories (free movement and communication)

-Half Weight:
--Upgraded goods. Allowing pops to use the one-level-more luxurious alternative in that needs category (Luxury-clothes-as-standard-clothing), this is to simulate that yes, poor people occasionally buy nice clothes. (This is a logic paradox uses, I merely generalized it).
--Complementary goods. Goods that cannot fulfill a need category just on its own. (Glass-as-Household-Items) (Again, paradox logic, I generalized it).

-Quarter Weight:
--Upgraded Complementary. Ex: Wine-as-Intoxicants
--DIY. Raw materials of upgraded goods are also set at this weight, simulating cases of people who want better stuff but has the skill and grit to just make it themselves. Examples include Silk for Standard Clothing and Hardwood for household items furniture.
--Secondary Leisure. All of the goods used for Leisure that isn’t Service or Fine Art is here.

-Eighth Weight: Services, representing artisans and weirdos-doing-odd-jobs, has 0.125 in every need category (Again paradox used services in this way but only in some needs category, I generalized it and upped the numbers a little).

-Recent Inventions: If a good is invented during the time period (Radio, Automobile, etc) then its weight will be quadrupled, its max_supply_share will stay the same, and its min_supply_share will be set to zero.
-- Electricity has a weight of 4 and a max supply of 100% for heating, meaning electricity is massively preferred by the people (other heating goods are at half weight and 50% max supply)
-- Automobiles and Telephones each has a weight of 2 and a max supply of 50% for free movement and communication. The 50% means trains can still stay profitable after the invention of these new tech. (Telephones cannot fully replace meeting friends and family face to face, not everyone is willing to drive for hours when rail is available)
-- Radio has a weight of 2 and a max supply of 50% for luxury. This is the same as basegame!
-- Aeroplanes and Steamers each has a weight of 1 and a max supply of 25% for leisure. All of the other non fine art leisure goods are also at 25% max supply. Private planes and yachts for the filthy rich!

New ways to satisfy needs
-Crude Items: Glass and Paper (Upgraded Complimentary).
-Basic Food: Sugar (Upgraded Complimentary)
-Standard Household Items: Luxury Furniture (Upgraded) added at half weight. Porcelain (Upgraded Complimentary) and Hardwood(DIY) Quarter weight.
-Standard clothing: Luxury Clothes added at half weight (Upgraded) and Silk at quarter weight (DIY) .
-Intoxicants: While I’m playing loose with the definition here, to simulate the fact that some poor people do buy coffee, tea, and wine, those three goods are now found here with quarter weight as “Upgraded Complimentary”. Upgraded, cause these are fancier, complementary because it's harder to get high or drunk off these goods. (Wine edit was partially integrated into the basegame in 1.7)
-Services: Covers every need at eighth weight. Artisans, Mavericks, Butlers, and Maids.
Observation on Balance
1) Predictably, because the consumption of services increased, taxing services is thus indirectly buffed. The Amount of this is less when compared to the 1.0 version of this mod as I have moderated some of the numbers. Also note that services are local now, so the behavior change won't completely upset the market.
2) Whaling industries and Arts Academy can actually survive now, and there is actual realistic demand of the goods these buildings produced. In fact, both will be in high demand at the start of the game, and this actually is somewhat historical since 1836 coincides with the beginning of peak whale oil (1830-1860), and the romanticism movement (c. 1800-1850)
3) Urban Centers can more reliably generate profit as services is now actually in demand. This will indirectly increase the clout of the PB
4) Brazil's "River of Coffee" JE is now possible without trickery.
Recent Changelog
1.8.6 update: New Tech Weight is now 4 times of max weight instead of 2 times, opium is no longer a leisure good (the 0.1 min_share for opium-as-intoxicant already drastically increased consumption), radios and automobiles also removed as leisure good as radio-as-luxury and automobiles-for-transportation now has increased weights.
1.8.4/5 update: Added sugar-as-basic-food at .25 (upgraded complimentary) so that if you are flooded with sugar it helps with famine a little. The weight for Sugar-as-Luxury-Food is reverted back to 0.5 (complimentary). Hardwood-for-heating is removed and in its place fabric now has .5 weight ( complimentary)
1.7.5 update: Compatch with VTM. Plus new heuristic (Recent Inventions) to make the needs more logically consistent.
1.7.4 update: Wine can no longer fulfill leisure.
Related mods
Grey's Pop Demand N&M Patch by @MasterOfGrey
PDT + Morgenrote Compatch
101 Comments
Ferrous  [author] 15 hours ago 
@Scanz
that... shouldn't happen because this mod very specifically doesn't give cars a minimum demand
Scanz 1 Aug @ 9:21am 
i think im found a bug.
when in the world no body cant produce a car, trade center can import it from world market, cuz pop demands
Ferrous  [author] 3 Jul @ 8:17pm 
sounds good
chrism 3 Jul @ 1:14pm 
Thanks, I've just read it in your desc above. During 1836- there was appr. +200 meat available, after deactivating the mod meat-avail. changed to -150 with according share% and price increases. Anyway, let's see what the devs will come up with until the final v1.9.6, then I'll try again. :-)
Ferrous  [author] 3 Jul @ 7:59am 
@chrism
I should reiterate, even though i've stated it in the mod desc, that goods substitution doesn't work off of price, but availability. So the fact that meat is cheap doesn't change anything by itself, and that is WAD/WAI
chrism 3 Jul @ 3:56am 
True, balancing is a tricky thing, but you've much experience with it. My thanks, as always. :-) I didn't watch the meat market for about a year (1836-) until I realized the meat share of appr. 8% in food security (35% were services) despite an ultra-low meat-price. The meat share didn't rise however, so I deactivated the mod and continued. Now in 1838 the meat-share is at 13%, with actual under-supply of meat and an above-average price.
Ferrous  [author] 3 Jul @ 1:25am 
Also i want to point out i was happy with the balance on 1.8 and 1.9 introduced the world market, so if anything things already should be easier in 1.9 anyways
Ferrous  [author] 3 Jul @ 1:19am 
@chrism
Hey chris, when i tested the mod in 1.9 the market stabilizes after a while, so im curious how long you let the game roll with the mod edits.
But the long and short of it is that the mod is not intended to make the pop's life easier, 1836 ain't an easy time period anyways. Famine being present sounds like a plus to me, at least until refrigeration is unlocked
chrism 3 Jul @ 1:09am 
Hello Ferrous. :-)
In regards to v1.9.6beta (but also seen in previous versions): I started with Austria and immediately got meat sell-problems (again) - especially a very low meat substitution rate in 'food security' - which seriously hampered my ranch productivity (despite of much needed fabric) and made food (security) overall more expensive for my pops.
Comparing your 00_pop_needs.txt file with the current one there are quite some differences in regards to weight and max/min supply share. I guess the use of 'services' as substitute good also influencess the food distribution (maybe too much)?
After deactivating the mod the food substitution improved and food prices overall got better.
Ferrous  [author] 2 Jul @ 9:21pm 
@Xinjiang Uterus Collector
Services is also substitute for all other needs so its not that it went into the majority of basic food but i can see why the UI might lead you to think that