Total War: SHOGUN 2

Total War: SHOGUN 2

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Sengoku_bune.pack
   
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Tags: mod, units
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10 Mar, 2024 @ 5:15am
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Sengoku_bune.pack

Description
Increases the flammability of the Sengoku bune.

Boats have a Fire_Risk_Modifier that affects how readily they are set on fire due to fire arrows.

The values range from 0.02 (very unlikely) - for the ironclads in the Boshin war, to 1.2 (highly flammable) for the Trade vessel in the Genpei war.

A coding error gave the sengoku bune a value of 0.1 (equivalent to the iron plated corvettes and frigates of the Boshin war).

The sails and rigging are the most flammable part of ships of the period. As a comparison, trade ships, nanban trade ships and the black ship have values of 1.0.

This mod changes the Fire_Risk_Modifier value for the sengoku bune to match that of the other sail boats in the game.
21 Comments
markeason  [author] 28 Mar @ 3:19am 
That's pretty well my view. You don't counter fire arrows by inventing a fire-proof ship (especially not a sailing vessel, since the sails/rigging are the most flammable part of the vessel), you do it by making the fire arrows less potent. I often run games with the range of fire arrows reduced relative to normal arrows, (which is a historically accurate fix). Another option might be to reduce the fire spread rate on the ship, making it easier to put out the fire.
gaehlion 28 Mar @ 2:46am 
Whatever people say, making Sengoku Bunes fireproof for no reasons except for countering fire arrows feels kind of irrelevant. If CA wanted to balance fire arrows they could have introduced a fireproof ship with say fire resistant plating instead of fiddling with a unit's stats.
Malkiah 4 Feb @ 9:18am 
I dunno what kind of lulu land you live in, but showing a video about an accident to prove military strategy is a bit silly. Even ignoring the glaring aspect of your lack of knowledge on physics and historical military warfare. There are plenty of scientific and historical knowledge that you can enlighten yourself with online if you ever feel inclined to do so.

Anyway, you do you. Sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss. So do what works out for you.
markeason  [author] 4 Feb @ 7:20am 
They are not a counter to fire arrows - that is just how you choose to interpret them. They are a counter to small vessels that they can out-pace and board. Have your medium bune or bow kobayas engage first and take the fire arrows, then engage your sengoku bune while the enemy archers are on cool-down.
You seriously believe it is not possible for archers to hit a target without line of sight? Even axe throwers can do that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMrVdFnjEjs&t=24s
As to weapons, you know that in-game there are samurai with yaris or naginatas as well right? These were weapons of the period and have been included for unit diversity. It would be a dull game otherwise.
Fire-proof ships were not available during the period.
Malkiah 4 Feb @ 6:10am 
You do know that the AI can use fire arrows in the rain, right? So your weather suggestions seem kinda silly to me, unless you found a way to change that.

Now in regards to the fire resistant argument being inconceivable by design, in a game that has a lot of artistic interpretation in many aspects. From the way ninjas are portrayed to archers being able to kill enemies inside a castle without line of sight. Or even have having samurai using katanas as their primary weapon. So with that context, it isn't that far fetch that they designed the Sengoku bune, which historically was just a big trade vessel, to be a counter to bow kobayas and their fire arrows, since they are the only ship with that ability.
markeason  [author] 4 Feb @ 5:27am 
If you choose to believe that it was a design choice to give this vessel an asbestos hull, fire-blankets for sails and tungsten lines, then have at it. I am of the opinion that something that significant might have got a mention in the encyclopedia.
Are fire arrows over-powered in this game? Yes, absolutely. There are many ways to counter that such as reducing the range of fire arrows relative to other arrows so they have to approach within the fire range of regular bow armed vessels, reduce the spread rate of fire on the vessels, increase the cool-down time between fire arrows for example. No self-respecting dev would think a fire resistant sail boat was a viable solution. That is a Warhammer (fantasy) solution.
markeason  [author] 4 Feb @ 5:26am 
Malkiah. Let me explain why you are wrong. The sengoku bune is a sail-assisted vessel that moves faster with the wind. It's purpose is to catch and board smaller vessels which it does by using the wind direction to increase its speed (strange that its speed is not geared to the strength of the wind, but never mind). The mod does not prevent them doing this, it just makes it more hazardous on a good weather day if the enemy has researched Way of the Bow.
Just as the bow kobaya looks to fight battles on a good weather day, so that they can use fire arrows; the sengoku bune should be looking to engage in rain or fog to minimise exposure to fire arrows.
Malkiah 31 Dec, 2024 @ 5:49am 
It isn't a bug, but a balance decision to counter how powerful Bow Kobayas flammable arrows are. And in the Segoku Bune description, the main purpose of the ship is to chase down small fast moving vessel aka Bow Kobayas. With your mod, they can no longer do that.

So while yeah, your mod makes it is more realistic, breaks the triangle balance of naval combat, where Sengoku Bune beats Bow Kobaya, Bow Kobaya beats Medium Bune and Medium Bune beats Sengoku Bune.
Matthew39 7 Oct, 2024 @ 4:00am 
@markeason

Thank you for the response! Your mods are absolutely essential and make up a good chunk of my mod collection :D
markeason  [author] 6 Oct, 2024 @ 10:02pm 
Thank you for the feedback Matthew. You are correct. If you subscribe to the Mori Clan Trait Fix mod then you do not need to subscribe to this mod.