It was unforgiving.

I have recooked the mod so you can play this MASTER PIECE again. You're welcome.

Is there any traditional blue rifts harder than this one?

LMAO it's all good no worries

breh it literally crashes when I try to recook, this mod is as old as dinosaurs

recook

try me; i am a pro

you are making a grave mistake

I don't think you want to play this

recook

Its hard, surely, was quite challenging, but frankly speaking it isn't any good, nor is it fun. Not to mention that "controllers not recommended" part. I see why that is, but its still crazy :)

Another thing about unforgiving stuff in general is that it makes gameplay rather shallow, but then again I guess thats what players look for in these types of maps.

I cheesed the last part when I just climbed up over the green and purle walls.

@Chad if you're subscribed to it and opted into the modding beta, it should be inside the mod section of the menu

where is the time rift?

It was incredibly hard but I managed to beat it with controller, great map!

>controllers are not reccomended...

Learned that the hard way... spent an hour and a half on this... The super fast gears broke me.

@KingOfDefeat i'll playtest my next map with a controller, then i'll know where it's a problem.

Just so you know, I'm not talking about going from balloon to balloon near the beginning. That's not a big problem. It's just parts where your vision is obscured. There are two parts in particular where the camera was a major issue. Both parts involved wall jumping off of a dweller wall onto a balloon and back to another wall. I had to turn my camera sideways, so I could see both walls and hope and pray that I hit the balloon(s). Maybe putting pons on the part of the wall that's directly across from the balloon(s) would help. Simple things like that are sometimes all you need.

I know it's your first level, but I don't think that's the mentality you should have when creating levels. Never at any point in time should you say "Nothing I can do about that." There's always something you can do to make things easier to see, even if it's not perfect.

Not everyone's going to change their controls to suit your level, especially if they're much more comfortable with one over the other. It's not that "controller isn't suited for hard jumps," it's that the objects you needed to hit were placed in hard to see areas where quick camera movement is preferred.

(Continued in next post)

@marioobamaboy weird, maybe try to doublejump before passing the purple dweller wall then doing a dive into the next balloon

For some reason after the first checkpoint, where you need to use the wall and then jump a ballon and then use the Dweller's mask Hat kid refuses to do a 2nd double jump after the wall jump to reach the ballon. ive been trying for about a hour now and she wont do her jump. if you want to know the part im talking about its at (0:51) in the video hat kid grabs the wall and jumps then does a double jump which i cannot do for some reason.

@KingofDefeat sorry, it's not my fault that a controller isn't suited for hard jumps. Nothing i can do about that. I will put a warning in the description about controllers, if i make another hard map.

I would say next time when making a level, consider those players who use mouse and keyboard as well as controller. There are a few parts in this level where the camera becomes a big issue, and since I use a controller, I had to place the camera in a hard to maneuver angle just to make sure I can see everything I need to hit.

Precision jumping is fine, since Hat Kid's movement allows for that, but when you're forced to put the camera in such a place that makes it hard to be precise, it just adds to the frustration. I managed to beat this rift with controller, but I definitely cheated the last part with the large gear. I used the two dweller walls at the beginning of that part as platforms to get to the very top. Definitely not intended, I'm sure, but hey, screw doing things the proper way, amirite?? xD

@RedPandaSmash yeah the floating balloons in the middle of no where was a mistake, i'll try to add visual cues next time i do something like this.

The second problem is lenience. I understand that the intent is for it to be difficult. Learning the solutions to the platforming puzzles and having the dexterity to pull it off is fun, but there should be a balance, especially taking into account the game's limitations, such as the camera, and the lack of clarity when it comes to depth perception. I counted many times where I thought I was going to land perfectly on a balloon but just missed, and it felt like my play wasn't at fault. Level design needs to compliment the strengths and weaknesses of the game and its engine to be good, even if the quality of the design is sound in a vacuum.

As it is now, the ideas are good, but playing it is frustrating, and there isn't a sense of satisfaction when you complete a difficult section because it lacks polish. I don't want to imagine what this level was like before there were more checkpoints.

I really like this type of challenge level, however there are a few problems that keep me from wanting to complete it.

The biggest problem is seeing what's up ahead. Trial and error is the name of the game here, and that's perfectly fine; when that's the intended experience the level is still fair and fun, like in Super Meat Boy. However, the inability to see what's up ahead because of walls, vertical heights exceding the camera's range, and having to manually turn the camera (taking your thumb off the jump button hindering your ability to execute appropriately) is a massive problem. At one point I pulled out the camera badge so I could actually observe a piece level design.

(cont. in next comment)

also I know this is an ingame problem but just saying that using dweller mask and then hitting a balloon will cause it to turn off abruptly.

maybe turn on god mode just like wet mushroom dream (which I completed 7 hours with breaks in between).

@Tentacle Grape The video of me completing the map was done using a keyboard. Sounds like you have a bit too much sensitivity. I personally don't have any trouble doing the jumps in this map with keyboard and mouse.

The jumps in this map are pretty precise and that's what I wanted. This is a hard map so i won't be changing the jumps.

Yeah the wallrun bug is very annoying but there isn't much i can do. You can fix this yourself though. After falling off, do a stationary jump and then wallrun should be fixed.

and I just got in the first checkpoint. the jumps are too far and precise that a small movement of the mouse will cause the character to move in a different spot making the cross between 1st and 2nd balloon impossible.

It's a good map I'll admit, but really you need to give some leeway here.

this game really needs to fix wall climb. and I'm playing using kbd. despite pressing left/right it's not wall climbing and just falls. I haven't gone past the FIRST dweller mask obstacle and I'm already 15 mins in.

@Vincent Gordon Brooks yeah that sounds pretty annoying, i use keyboard so i haven't noticed any of those issue. I may add more checkpoints.

You need more checkpoints, about one after every challenge. The games early state causes some unnessisary deaths, and when I play on controller, some inputs occasionally get dropped, but only when using the Dweller's mask. Other than that, I think I'd enjoy it. Its just frustrating going over the same part again and again when I know what to do, but the game/controller will not do it.

way too hard for me, but it's full of really awesome ideas!

bad

I played it right before I posted that.
I think there were like 1 or 2 checkpoints.
Cheers!

@Ross thanks for the comment. When did you play this map? I added checkpoints 3 or 4 days ago.

@André I'm glad you enjoyed the map!

I understand the philosophy of "once you beat a section, it's easier to go through again," but even if you zip through everything you've already done, it kinda wastes your time regardless. Trial and error is fine, and even good— but when you're set back a million miles for experimenting, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

The lack of checkpoints made the level more frustrating than fun for me, which was a shame because I think I would've liked this level a bunch if it had more checkpoints.

You had some interesting design themes throughout the level though, and I look forward to your future work!

Well before I managed to beat it, I didn't really like it either. But once you get through it, you stop being influenced by the frustration, that comes with a hard map, and appreciate it for what it is: a decent, really challenging map. Ofc you won't like it if it's too hard for you, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I think the trial and error is what makes this map actually good and as rewarding as it is.

@Werti100 First of all, since you've played the map so many times, you should have noticed the bug way sooner and released the "fix" alongside the map. There is just no excuse for that, but since it's finally fixed, I guess that's in the past.

Second of all, you don't have to try to justify your map, make it better or listen to me at all. All I'm saying is, I did not have fun playing this map. At all. And I'm giving you the reasons as to why I did not like the map, and I'm saying I would not recommend it to others, because I didn't enjoy it.

And before you write that off as a "mad because bad" type of scenario, I've spent way more times on other levels, for example wet mushroom heaven, because even if it was difficult, it was fun. This map wasn't fun, it was just frustrating. So I felt demotivated to try to get better at this very hard map, because it wasn't fun.

@OsynlingKanin That couldn't be more wrong, i played my map over and over again. It's impossible to make a hard map with a bunch of precise jumps and not test it.

I just didn't know what was even causing the bug or how to fix it for a while. That's why NOW it's ''fixed''.

I guess the checkpoints aren't placed at equal paste but i like that. I think it is fine to have segments that are a bit harder or longer than others.

You're saying all this as if the player never got better while he plays this map. once you finish a segment you should now understand how to beat it and should have an easier time if you were to do it again. It's almost like the segment you just went through doesn't exist anymore because you know how to beat it.

@Werti100 Well, I know the wallrunning bug at the start is because of the game, but leaving it in, when there are so many workarounds just shows that you didn't playtest your map at all. Also, a lot of the trail and error could easily be removed just by giving better lookoutspots. Also, since the map was made without checkpoints in mind, it feels like it has a bad segment structure, making the trail and error even more annoying.

I really liked your map! I took hour to complete it, and sure, it was a bit of trial and error, but that's what I actually like about it. It takes a long time, but at least it's really rewarding once you finish it. Especially because this map was actually made in a pretty short time, you did a great job and I'm really looking forward to seeing new maps! Only criticizm I have is maybe add a few more checkpoints, but that's also part of the difficulty, so if you think this is fine, just keep it the way it is.

Anyway, thank you really much for making this, I had a great time!

@OsynligKanin Yeah the bug is very annoying, I updated the map with a safety platform that catches the player and reset the wallrun so that it works again. Please keep in mind that these sort of bugs are because of the game and not my map.

I feel like trial and error is nearly inevitable in a hard map. I also think I did a decent job of high-lighting the correct path with money pons. You can also for the most part, observe a upcoming puzzle and analyze it. A good example would be the big tower in the beginning, it's high up and you can see everything.

Thank you for playing my map and giving feedback, I understand that this kind of difficulty isn't for everyone.

Both me and my friend just straight up gave up on this map because of the bug wit hthe first jump. pretty much 70% of the time, hat kid WILL NOT start wallrunning on the first jump, and it's so frustrating trying again and again. I'd reccommend just removing the first jump entirely.

As other people have said, this map has a lot of trail and error which is annoying, but the mod creator seem to have taken the critizism to heart, and I look forward to more of his maps.

I can't personally reccomend this map, because of bugs and trail and error, but I still like this creator because he wants to make hard maps, and thats exactly what this game does.

4/10 map, but looking forward to seeing more of your maps in the future!

lots of trial and error kind of makes the level a slog, but it's sort of fun in a masochistic sort of way i suppose

i hate you, this was supposed to be happy fun game, not sad grrrrr game, thanks for the heart attack, in al do respect i guess is just wasen't good enough, tried it with the astronaught hat to cheat though, might want to look inti that

@Firiq Glad to hear you enjoyed it. I agree, some of the challenges were trial and error, i will keep that in mind for my next maps.

i recently found out ways to cheese my map too lol, i'll update it soon.

as for the checkpoints, you may have the old version of the map, this one is supposed to have checkpoints.

Hey I finally beat this after 3 and a half hours. Was fun figuring out some of the puzzles but I think I cheesed some of the things. I think it's cool how this level actually uses the dweller mask in the jumps, rather than just puts a giant wall to check whether or not you have it. Thank you for the level.

I don't like how you can't see a lot of the segments until you're actually on them. There's no vantage point, which makes some of the puzzles feel like trial an error as you try to react. Was especially annoying with no checkpoints.