is this mod dead?

I believe your mod is broken friend. We got LeaderLib to make sure and configured it to give a large amount of Menace with Con, but any character can somehow get "Highest Menace" after only generating like 100 menace, whereas the tank generated over 400 in his turn. If you would allow the players to see their current Menace, maybe we could understand why it isn't working, or make the Menace cap (assuming there is one) configurable and much much higher.

Please fix this, we really want to use it in our playthrough since it is a great concept, just horribly broken right now.

How do you open that settings menu?

I feel I need to correct my self as well as bring up a few things... Cycling Menace is unreliable, and so is LeaderLib's tweaks. We even set decay to a crazy number and if there was any improvement, none of us saw it in our 3P co op campaign. We set Finesse, then Wits for a negative Menace stat, that also did not feel like it consistently helped.

All 3 of us are now pretty sure having a cap on Menace is a major factor in this problem.

The epitome of WTFery was 2 people at cap Menace, and one of them somehow passing the other Highest Menace by attacking an enemy... I don't even ;3

@Spazz; Risking sounding condescending, a quick band aid fix is to cycle Menace manually with the fact that 100 is the limit. A rough example would be to allow your Tank to always have the highest Menace at the end, by reducing other party members' Menace. Let it decay, sneak, things like that.

You might also want to use the in game adjustments offered by LeaderLib, for the Menace system- Set an attribute to decrease Menace, increase decay rates ETC.

It is my understanding that DarkAssassiaN is considering several ways to approach the issue.

Sadly the cap is 100 menace.

Also, one character is gaining hundreds of menace a hit, while other are gaining 10-20, yet they hardly ever have the highest menace

It seems that even though a character has the highest menace, other still get targeted just as much as they would normally

I have wits set as my negative menace modifier in my game. It works well.

On a side note, I definitely suggest Sneaking(The actual stat, not the act of sneaking in game) and Wits(Ironically...) should decrease Menace, if you go for a DecreaseAttribute.

Wits because for example in my head it's like... Thinking tactically, not presenting your self as a target to the enemy ETC ETC in a role play sense. It's your "Smarts" but not your intelligence or wisdom let's say. So you'd not be attracting too much attention, striking surgically and methodically - It is even supported by how Wits do increase Crit.

And of course Sneaking because it means you know how to be... Sneaky. IE, not attract attention, be stealthy ETC.

It will be very interesting to see how you tackle this problem, can't wait to test ^_^ One quick note though, removing the cap seems a good idea in theory but in practice in might create a situation in which the DPS will reach such Menace levels that the Tank won't hope to compete, whereas with a cap, Menace can be "Cycled"- Which, granted, is a bit weird.

I still think toying around with what generates Menace, how and when, and of course what decreases it and so on, is the way to go... In other words, balance until you refine "Cycling" of Menace so that it happens organically and intuitively, without players having to stop attacking ETC. It might not be too easy, but that's the ideal solution.

But sure, I'd definitely test a no cap version as a possible solution.

It would also be nice if stealth/hiding reset your menace to zero.

I think removing the cap is the way to go. I always lose threat even though I generate way more than everyone else. Even when I generate menace on every turn. It doesn't make sense to me from your description, if i'm capped at 100 I shouldn't ever lose unless i generate less than 10 per turn.

Awesome, can't wait to try it out.

@Daphne
im now thinking how to solve this problem.
solutions that i see:
1) similar to your suggestions: decrease Menace gains for some skills/statuses and probably remove 100 cap (but i need to check that this wont break anything)
2) change Menace gain formula to something like this:
MenaceGain = Base + GainMult * GainAttribute - DecreaseMult * DecreaseAttribute
this is more "lore frendly" and level-based: with every point in DecreaseAttribute your character "learns" how to generate less Menace and opposite for GainAttribute

@Daphne
"""All lost Menace to DMG non CON builds like ST Rogue, ST and MT Ranger, and couldn't get it back. It was worse against surfaces such as Rain+Electricity, or explosions from Poison+Fire."""

this is major/core problem in a mod, max value of Menace = 100 per character
so first character who "capped" at 100 (80% of time - main DD that single handedly drained all vitality of one enemy) will have status "HIGHESTMENACE" forever until some other character dont reach 100 Menace and you:
1)dont do anything that generate any additional Menace in your turn (so you will have 90 Menace) and wait untill character with higher Menace do someting
2)use some spells that decrease Menace
(1-st variant almost imposible if you have surface that generate Menace to you)

so your only hope that tank will generate 100 Menace and you somehow "rotate" "HIGHESTMENACE" status to him.

New update:
> if you have installed LeaderLib:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1499447796
through book you can change scaling params for Menace gains and Menace decreases:
-Attribute: Strength, Finesse, Constitution, Intelligence, Memory, and Wits
-Multiplier: how many bonus Menace you gains/decreases for each attribute

> fix for Menace decrease
in original mod you gain Menace using skills that should decrease Menace
(Chameleon skin, etc.)

> i figured out how properly update mod
so you dont need make "clear" save after switching from original mod

Tested 3 builds with 2 friends, various fights;

- DMG/CON + Shield, then 2Hand, with and without Wits
- Pure CON + Shield
- DMG + Shield then 2Hand

All lost Menace to DMG non CON builds like ST Rogue, ST and MT Ranger, and couldn't get it back. It was worse against surfaces such as Rain+Electricity, or explosions from Poison+Fire.

Taking into consideration no shield builds too, here's my suggestion;

- Increase Menace value even more, based on CON.

- Taunt, Shield Throw, Shield Up, Persevere, Retribution, Gladiator and other such skills, talents or stats should gen lots of Menace and reduce decay, based on CON.

- Sneaking and Invis should lower Menace or increase decay.

- Heal, HOTs, DOTs and status(IE Shocked or Burning by surface or otherwise) should gen less Menace.

- LOS and such should affect Menace. Characters far away should not gen Menace for enemies around a Tank, or at least distance should reduce Menace or increase decay.

Or maybe double all menace if wearing a shield.

I second that , Repaq

I think it needs 2-3 menace per point of constitution, it doesn't scale as well as damage does at the moment.

Why do you need a mod for tanking scaling with constitution if vitality doesn't matter?

No, the original mod scaling with wits was brainless and made the system basically nonexistant in the first place--or rather mobs would just attack whoever hit them last, because wits has been the best stat in the game, and all the best builds stack it. In tactition/honour mode, if you're taking vitality damage, that charatcer is 9/10 times already dead regardless of how much health or constituon they have, making it a useless stat. Wits was the best because you CC or kill things before they move, or place your characters in such a way they can't be attacked or taken advatange of--think like xcom. Scaling with constitution creates variety, and makes an otherwise useless stat, useful, since more HP doesn't really do anything anyway, you now have to invest to make a tank able to hold aggro, and you don't automatically make your tank also hit like a truck, which is imbalanced.

The original mod was made to scale with Wits so that you had to work to maintain your menace. It allowed more engaging gameplay instead of just auto tank because constitution.

Finally. Someone with some sense. Good job! scaling with wits... can you believe it? lol making the tanking system scale with a stat that doesnt even make you tanky. Thank you for making this you are awesome.

Excellent, this fixes the one thing keeping me from using the original Menace system, mainly that it's tied to the wrong damn stat. Seriously, Wits is more of a rogue/ranger stat anyway, neither of which are any good at tanking in 99% of games. Con fits much more with the whole "I'm a tank, who makes the squishy wizards in the group feel safe" aspect.

@StarBoss you dont need the original mod

@Spazz i attached video where you can see that mod is working properly,
at 12 constitution - 1 attack generate 10-12 menace
at 201 constitution - 1 attack generate 194-196 menace

if you already have installed the original mod, create "clear" save without it, and then activate this mod.

Doesn't seem to work

Do you need the original or is this stand alone?