The answer is that the thievery stat scales with the enemy levels, it's a common problem in another mod that changes the cap.

It's definitely odd, given logically I would have a lot more reports if it was just the mod only causing that so its pretty certain to be a form of compound issue, but you've eliminated most of the probable causes for that there already. Maybe a specific setting or a certain setting on an enabled gift bag mod could be the potential cause given the low rate it's occurring at.

Script extender should be entirely safe, as far as I'm aware it doesn't mess with anything that would fundamentally alter any game mechanics on those. Similarly this mod just messes with a few single number values that shouldn't really be called on by much else other than the "is the player at this limit" type checks.

The only things I can think of would be
a) if you've downloaded mods from anywhere else or unsubbed and not checked the larian > dos2 > mods folder, as files do get stuck in there. Without changing the in-game mod list, those can still be enabled.
b) POTENTIALLY a gift bag larian mod + this causes it. That could be the cause based on how rare people finding this issue is, but that's purely speculation based on how rare it is people mention it - particularly given you'd notice the moment you try to pickpocket beyond a certain point in the game.

Unfortunately it's very difficult to track down the cause of that because as far as I can tell it must be this AND something else, and I don't know what the something else is. Nice to hear you figured out something that works fine for you though. I do have a number of other carry weight mods that you can always overwrite basic cap tweaks as well if your new one isn't ideal for what you want.

I went through my full load order to diagnose the problem and isolated it to this one. With only this mod activated the problem was happening. I installed your normal cap tweaks and it worked as intended, so I finished my playthrough with that one plus a carry weight mod.

I then created a new profile and started a new game with just this mod activated to do some additional testing, unsubscribing and resubscribing, and the problem still persisted. (Dallis, Gheists having 8 requirement at gates to fort joy, 3 with mod off)

I have since done a fresh install, thinking perhaps the script extender had some effect, but no luck, same issue. No idea what's causing it, and (while I'm not very knowledgeable about modding) with no other mods activated, and no extensions, I doubt its a conflict with another mod.

Your normal cap tweaks + a weight mod achieves the effect I want so the issue with this specific one no longer affects me.

This was reported once before but its very odd to me I've not seen more reports of it across my mods given I have like 4 different Cap tweaks variants, and this one alone has like 6k+ users. In other words, if it was a base game issue that's enabled by uncapping civils, it's weird I haven't had more complaints about it by now, mod has been here for years. I did previously reduce the civil limit to 20 to pull the issue in a bit the first time it was reported too.

I suspect there may be an issue when this is combined with another mod. Do you by any chance have any mods that adjust how civil skills work, or level scaling? Anything that would adjust either what a civil skill does specifically or something that changes levelling formulas, enemy levels, zone levels, anything like that?

Unsure why, as it wasn't doing it before, but this mod is now causing pickpocket requirement to equal NPCs level. Not very noticeable in act 1, but its apparent when every NPC needs 9+ thievery to steal from in Driftwood.

Not that i know, i checked many times, but i was able to overcome it by using cheat commander like a hour ago, i just needed to put the points above 5 and then it worked, i didnt try doing it your way that might be my problem, its possible mirror is missing the coding to work together with the mod, thanks a lot for fast answer, tomorrow i check unspeccing outside mirror and see that :)

I'm not sure if the mirror has any special interactions with limits, but I don't think so. I know I was always able to move my points around however I wished, though I don't know if i ever explicitly spent my points in the mirror rather than unspeccing then spending them outside the mirror.

Do you have anything else that is definitely interacting with civil skills? Mod wise I mean.

Hello, first of all thanks for the great mod/work, I come here because not sure of what is happening, but while the attributes seem to go all the way up, the civil skills wont go past rank 5, and I dont have other mods that affect it so not sure what is happening, I am trying to change the civil in the mirror in Fort Joy Arena, can this have anything to do with it?

This is from laughing leader on his discord in response to my bug report:

"So the issue with that uniques mod was discovered back here:
https://discord.com/channels/670773981069967368/675385280923959365/1024063637507276830
Basically the mod keeps starting and repeating new timers, which only ever increase as you continue to play, until you eventually get a ton of lag.
I don't think they ever fixed it after it was reported:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/2414527037/5717866822617022121/?ctp=6#c3364775232106377203 "

I use the unique loot drops mod and what he said here does make sense as to how overtime my game would start getting worse in terms of lag. This is my first time using the mod so it makes sense why i have never had this issue until now. What makes it worse is it looks like the mod author never fixed the issue as stated by laughing leader.

lol yep gota have the extender always since a lot of the good mods use it.im using the latest version of it from github.

Since yesterday i have started a new playthrough and i no longer get that random freeze/stutter when just walking around but i have been noticing that sometimes during combat I would get very small micro stutters, this did surprise me to say the least but for some reason i noticed the less saves i have the less i would get the micro stutter.

I always like to keep a bunch of saves in case something goes wrong but this time i cut them down to 3 autosaves and 3 quick saves and the stutter very rarely happens.

Another thing i was updated on is from the mod author laughing leader which i will talk about in my next post as he pointed out a major flaw in a mod that i have that makes since in this scenario were i was getting the lag spikes.

The only other thing that jumps to my mind without more info on what's going on would be making sure you have Norbytes script extender added in, which you can find here I beleive.
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2031669903

Some mods require it, though given you seem to be familiar with mods I'm assuming you'd be able to handle requirements just fine typically, - however if you don't already have it, this did improve loading times in my games quite a bit, which is considerably helpful if your goal is testing what the hell is breaking your game when mods are involved.

Given the system you're using, I *doubt* it's the enemy mods that are responsible unless they are very poorly implemented new enemies. If it's just adding more things that were already in the engine (for example more pre-existing voidwoken or the like) it would increase burden in respective combat encounters, but there's no reason it'd cause a sudden spike like you're experiencing unless one particular fight had an additional hundred or so new enemies.

But yeah I'd just say give your end-game combat build a stress test in the early game using cheat commander. Make sure to check your buffs and effects +enemy ones whenever the lag starts during combat and if it's a combat thing you should be able to nail it down.

It's my best guess so I can't be sure - but the base game handled spammed out spells and effects in all my games pretty well and I'd assume other people are using this for some crazy builds as well so it seems unlikely to be just this causing it.

I'm not familiar with Luminary - you could test out mods like this early on using Cheat Commander I'd imagine though. Just use it to add points and skills etc till you reach what would otherwise be a late game build early on, and then fight with whatever junk you can find in the early game. If you encounter the lag again, then it's most likely something that's applying in those fights, which would narrow it down because you didn't experience that lag early on last time.

I have a pretty beefy pc, RTX 3080 and ryzen 9 5900x so i dont think its that my system cant handle that anyway. Thanks for pointing out that those other mods are causing the issue though.

in fact i do have mods that effect enemy stats and reworks skills,spells and such. I also even use the Luminary mod which adds a whole new skill that buffs the damage of the newly added light element.

I have 2 mods that adds enemies and 2 mods that overhaul their difficulty. One of them only adds more health while the other actually gives them different effects like extra buffs and such to main fights in the game like bosses and some lesser minions.

Im in the process of removing some mods and starting a new fresh save because the stuttering/freezing is so common that i deem it as unplayable for a full play through. I thought it had to do something with the amount of buffs my characters had but they have had them all game until that point where it started the issue so I really dont think that was the problem.

In theory anything is possible with mods but in practise and considering this is the only report of here, I don't think it could be this mod causing it honestly.

Practically speaking this mod only adjusts what the game allows you to reach, the engine itself I've never seen or heard of it struggling with the effects of high attributes or very big damage numbers from stacking modifiers to the max using this.

Are you doing anything crazy with civil skills? Maybe you could cause something to freak out a civil skill as a wild guess because they scale exponentially and the game doesn't expect them to produce high numbers, but that's the only thing I can think of - and is honestly unlikely to be the cause.

Do you have any mods that adjust or rework spell effects, status effects, enemy numbers, etc? These kind of factors (where lots of entirely new calculations are being added) are more often where you'd encounter lag and stuttering being introduced.

does this perhaps make the game unstable after a while? as in stuttering and freezes during gameplay? I started using this mod two days ago and its very entertaining but for some reason i started getting stuttering when i reached level 10 in fort joy. I dont know if it has to do with all the buffs me and the enemies gets but it is really starting to effect gameplay because i cant go more then 10 seconds without seeing a stutter, I never experienced that ever before in any of my time playing dos2.

As for what exactly is going on there, that doesn't seem like anything that would occur from either my mods or vanilla gameplay as a mod, I don't think anything I have directly relates to status effects.

I can't say for sure without being familiar with your mods used and all, but if you have anything that edits spells in multiple ways, edits status effects themselves, or maybe a magic rework type mod, they'd all be near the top of my suspect list.

You might be able to stop the huge duration by testing with disabled mods if you have multiple that fit those descriptions.

Huh. I've never had anything like that actually.

I think there's a talent for players, walk it off I think, that reduces duration of status on you. That might be a good place to start looking, if a mod was reducing status time they'd probably mention that talent on the page somewhere.

Is this for surface system effects or direct debuffs etc as well? For example if you stand in fire I can't remember what that displays as, but it'd probably be a long duration and then edit to short until you leave fire.

Dont know if this comment section is still active, but is there ANY way to tweak the status effect duration from spells? Or is there maybe a mod to do that?

Whenever my Player Character casts literally any spell that sets a status, its for like, 120+ turns, every time.

Normally I wouldn't mind, but this also goes for damaging statuses.

...And my party has a habit of walking into any area that I create that would give them a status.

If there's a mod to just make it so they cant take negative status effects from my spells, that'd be nice as well.

I don't remember seeing a setting for it, so unmodified from the base game - which as far as I'm aware doesn't actually have one? Just you're naturally limited by how much total EXP you can acquire via encounters quests etc all be finite.

So, nothing in the mod. These changes are seperate from level limits regardless, you get the maximums immediately on a per character basis.

I could be wrong on the game having a limit on levels anyway, but I don't remember seeing one in the same code block as the changes in these mods.

what's the character level cap for this?

Revision to 20 should have just been pushed, inform of any developments / issues with a fresh copy of the mod.

I would assume that:
a) You might need to delete the old file and then unsub > resub to force Steam to get the latest version (Sometime it won't update on it's own at random)
b) The mod should work on existing playthroughs just fine, with the natural caveat of...
...c) Any games with civil skills above 20+ regardless of value will likely retain the current amount of points but not allow any further points to be allocated to that skill.

Hmm, I might revise the cap down to like 20 and see if it does enough to negate or severely reduce this. Assuming the engine lets me back into the project, which it sometimes decides to not do.

I've "discovered" a problem with increasing caps for civil abilities, specifically thievery, because the numbers aren't hidden. If the cap it higher, so is the requirement. There's no point in using caps for civil abilities, it seems. The checks are likely performed against a scale between 0 and max civil ability.

As for your cause, possible. Unleashed does sound like an overhaul and overhauls do tend to change a lot, so its very possible. Unfortunately not really much my end can do, its basically just that mod would (if it is indeed that one) scale up skills to the maximum allowed, which naturally this makes annoyingly high if combined with that.

Ah, if your primary interest is in the weight increase I do have other mods that just do that. If you load one of those weight increases after cap tweaks in Divinity mod list it should overwrite the cap tweaks changes.

Of course if 5k is enough for you then you're good.

Without a lot of trial and error, I believe the issue is Cap Tweaks and Divinity Unleashed. Now that I set the value max to 34, I can pick more pockets... I am SO klepto in games LOL. The carry weight changes means I can go nuts with barrels... nothing like stacking 10 barrles of oil around the next fight and fireballing the whole area.

That's an interesting one. In short Cap Tweaks and particularly this one just raises the games internal maximums.

Unless another mod edits skill values, you should still get, for example, Thievery within the normal level boundaries of the game so typically from 1 to 5.

If you require any skill above a single digit value, a mod has certainly edited that. I believe someone had an issue before where another mod combined with cap tweaks caused that to happen, presumably it was scaled to maximum skill level.

Unfortunately there is not a great deal I can do to prevent the issue occurring as, at least as far as I'm aware currently, Cap tweaks shouldn't be causing any increased skill checks.

So, here's a weird issue for you. It's probably due to a combination of mods, but I am at a point in the game that requires Thievery 35+ to pick pockets, but the GV calc's out so high the game sets it to 0. At 34, I can PP 51kg or 1459410600g. At 35 it goes to 52.5kg 0g. I've modified the Civil Cap value so it drops down to 34's data, but I thought I'd point it out.

I mean this on it's own in theory doesn't become remarkably overpowered.
If you use something that boosts the total amount of points you have to spend however, then things start getting absolutely absurd. It's something of an enabler mod, in effect.

Fjarunsigr
Thanks for the mod :) I'm playing the game with my son and we have reasonable mods. I've got another solo game going and I'm using mods like this. At no point did I ever think "gee this mod is too strong!" Ithought " gee this mod does exactly what it promised when I activated it."

also as I forgot to mention, this doesn't actually give you more points to reach those limits on it's own. It purely exists to enable people to do things the game typically would not allow if they have supporting mods to achieve it.

Admittedly this version of cap tweaks is mostly focused on enabling particularly overpowered shenanigans - but to be reaching the caps listed, most of the time you'd need other mods to even get enough points to a single cap. The only real exception to the above being what you could do IF you took lone wolf and focused all of your combat skill points / attribute points into a single skill each - and even then that would leave you with some serious weaknesses.

Anything tagged as an Insanity edition typically is not really aimed at preserving game balance in regards to my own mods @Free, these are the more the uh full scale cheating versions of simpler/weaker mods, typically.

On the cheat commander note, as far as I'm aware you could cheat to the in game cap but you'd still be restricted by it. So in theory if someone wanted to go truly crazy they could for example use cheat commander and this to reach 250 STR right away, or similar shenanigans.

Not a particularly important point as well, but the total opinion scale does go from -100 to +100 so I imagine the bonus could scale to 200 (Talents like Stinky if i remember right will drop your base opinion, in which case the extra opinion could in theory be useful?) I cannot think of every possible scenario where a +200 opinion boost would be that useful, or any of them really. That said I have also not played every mod on the workshop so its entirely possible someone finds a usage for it somehow.

Also just to clear up something, if we for example both said 50 Persuasion would be great, but the rest are crazy/pointless/ or straight up bad - The civil skill limit to my knowledge can still only be adjusted with one value, and it affects all caps. Meaning you'd likely still have to adjust all of them to reach 50 persuasion.

The persuasion skill can't go beyond 20 because 10 is 50 opinion so 20 would be 100, and 100 opinion is max isn't it? so any more points into the persuasion skill at that point is just throwing away points.

Bartering at 50 would make money almost useless because everything would be cheaper then dirt, And whats the fun in that? making and spending money is half the fun, well, making it is anyways. like if you want to cheat like THAT then just get the cheat commander mod.

Telekinesis at 10 is MORE then enough to move things nearly clear across the map, why would anyone want or even need anything more then that?. like, seriously, its pointless to go beyond 10. i mean you need los to even use the skill, so things will get in the way or there'll be a wall that'll get in the way eventually so why go beyond 10 or even 15?

like attributes like strength and intelligence and so forth i get, the AI can get these stats as well yeah? otherwise whats the point in even playing the game at that point?. i can see this mod breaking a few skills, can't .. think of any off the top of my head right now but still, that's not a good thing. :/

Yeah its certainly unusual. Though unless a mod was straight up a complete rework to civil skils and also included a cap increase, the odds of one including a thievery requirement of explicitly 45 should be extremely low, outside of maybe trolling with a single gimmick lock or something.

We are talking 90% of the cap with 45 though. Why you'd include that with if your mod was aimed at vanilla skill values though I do not know.
i.e 90% of cap at 5 is... 4.5. But the game doesn't use decimals in gameplay typically. So it either becomes a really weird way to make it 4 or a rounded up 5.

Maybe if one of those mods originally increased civil cap to 10? that way 90% would make sense at it'd be 9 specifically. I didn't see that mentioned anywhere with my glances though.

Alright! I'll check it out, temporarily disabling some mods until I figure out what is causing an incompatibility. It seems to do a percentage thing of the maximum amount of thievery is what I'm guessing, and since your mod raises the cap a ton well yanno lol

My personal experiences with virtually all of those mods is nigh zero however, so I'm simply performing guess work based on what the mods seem to edit.

Naturally if any have wild edits (i.e stuff they change without mentioning) it would be very difficult for me to be aware of that without either the comments of the mod mentioning it a lot or testing the mods personally.

So I think in summary my guesses would be Newjoy, Util bundle and the Feenex pack mods.
if you can try experimenting with some of those flipped off and suddenly it behaves as expected rather than super-high, there is presumably a conflict or weird interaction between this and that mod somewhere.

Summoners gamble should be clear (skills mod)
Shadow stalker should be clear (new content, not civil related)
Stormherald same deal as last.

Newjoy (the 3 mods together in general)... I'm not really sure with this one. It does seem to be editing base game stuff so its a possible cause.

Enhanced memory I can say shouldn't be conflicting at all because it edits one line and thats in an entirely seperate file.

Metasourcerer is likely clear, (class mod again)
Pariah same story as last one.
Good harvest is a very focused mod so its highly unlikely it edits anything outside of its remit, i.e civils, so that should be fine.

Origin skills rework should be in the clear.
Utilitybundle seems to touch a lot of stuff so again, this is a low possibility but a potential issue there if it edits civils.
Deadly skill pack seems to just add skills and a relevant vendor, should be fine.

Tundra knight, same sorta deal. Should be entirely fine barring wild edits.
Feenex's duskblade should be fine (Again, classes are typically new content not rework, so this is most likely not a cause unless it has wild edits)
Venalguard and AStronomer are the same as above. Classes are fine as a general rule.

I'm not entirely sure about what the hell The clans is doing as a personal note, but it seems to be new content so again civil edits unlikely.

Ok first of all disclaimer I do not use many of these mods so my knowledge will be somewhat limited.

We can likely eliminate the odinblade stuff unless any of them rework civils as well for some reason. Crafting overhaul has no reason to touch them. Same with Initiative based turn order.
Helaene is the same story as odinblade, unless any of them change civils they should be fine.
Sundries should be fine.

Uniques should be fine (adding items nothing to do with civils etc), same story with hybrid spells. Short of wild edits neither should touch civils.

Feenex content seems to be broad-scale rework stuff at a glance, so its possible theres an issue somewhere here if any of those mention changing civils.

something completely unrelated, when I posted that in here it deleted all of my comment notifications in my inbox. super weird

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2217006078 <- only other mods we're using are yours, they aren't in this pack though

That would be helpful yes.
I'm guessing there's something somewhere thats interacting with whatever the maximum value is set to for the civil skill, as this mod doesn't explicitly touch anything to do with stealing bar the total skill cap available.

If you can send one I'll look through.

I'm having the same problem as the guy below with this enabled - if you want, I could send you a mod list?

That is certainly an odd one, given this mod only messes with the maximum value the game will allow you to reach.

My first guess would be you have another mod that expects the player to have something like 95% or so of the Civil skill cap for Thieving (Would be 4.5 in vanilla, obviously here's its much higher) OR the object you're trying to steal is from a mod and its interacting weirdly with this one.

If you happen to have a modlist, could you show me it?

Aaand IF you are just running this mod, I'm really gonna need to know what you were trying to steal, and the details of your character at the time, stats, debuffs, buffs etc.