Hi all, unfortunately this mod page is all messed up. Paradox's integration with Steam Workshop is just not great. The new link can be found in the description above. The latest update can be found there.

@Qareen, I've never had a CTD myself and they do seem rare with the mod. That said, Myrran has had some issues which you can take a look at in the Bug Reports thread. Who knows, maybe the new Steam version can solve your problems!

@Strategos, I'm thinking of changing some seduction stuff still. The age issue with marriage is a pain, but I make take some time to test the mod for that. As for the graphics mod, you should be able to just add the @ path for the building image to each file in the building folder of the mod.

@all ideally all comments should be on the new page now.

@Qareen, do you have the same issue I am having or is it different? I described my issue in "Bug reports" thread.

Sudhir, thank you for your long response. I did everything you recommended. The game still crashes on startup when I have your mod enabled and only your mod. So very confusing. lol, am I really the only one to have this problem. It makes zero sense that I would be.
Grrr... I really wish I could get your mod to work.

@TheLoneWanderer
Again, I'm aware of the things that you describe. Surely Sud or other modders can't make compatches for every single mod out there. I merely asked if he could provide a compatch (or at least advice me if it's doable) for a specific very popular mod. That would be helpful since people won't have to chose between his mod and the other one. Ofc I never demanded anything since it was just a simple user's request. I'm not one of these kids (I'm 36 anyway lol) running around STEAM and demanding things from modders... lol.

Cheers!

@TheLoneWanderer
I'm aware. That's why I suggested Sud to make HIS tweaks for the aforementioned issues, in a similar way or include modular rules for flexibility and compatibility and not steal other people's work. Thanks for the clarification though!

Cheers!

I am not sure that Sud has time to create nearly the entire MGR feature set from scratch. I am nearly certain that unless he created the same menu that MGR has, then very few people would be happy with his unique combination of personal choices for all of those options. Of all the things that Sud could be working on, trying to determine why a trivial graphics mod conflicts with his mod, and the trying to determine if a compatibility patch is possible is not what I would choose. There are thousands of mods and a dev cannot parse through each tiny one, let alone all of the big ones unless they don't have a life and working on an unpaid hobby is all consuming for them. All things I have written are just my humble opinion of course.

@G.Strategos - Looking through the More Game Rules files that are downloaded when one subscribes to the mod, and reading through the text within these files, it is easy to find the configurations for each of the items that you mentioned. Clipping out what one wants and creating a personal mod is not very difficult. However, anyone(including Sud) publishing a mod with things copied from another mod is not allowed without permission. If anyone did plagiarize someone's mod and then publish it, it is a trivial task to determine that they did and then be subject to whatever the Steam punishment is.

Another thing I forgot to mention. Just realized that using your mod along with "More Holding' Graphics'' messes with it's holding's pictures. I realized that you probably tweaked the same building files? Not sure why though, since the other mod only affects holding's pictures. Is it possible to have a compatch when you have the time? I have already asked the other creator to make one but I don't know if he's willing.

Could you please at least check if a compatch is possible and if you don't have the time I'll try to make it?

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2262523658

Cheers!

A funny example is the milf lover age gap which is ridiculous and as it seems, PI can't tweak it down for the last 2-3 patches.
https://imgur.com/0VrEc7x

@ Sud

Hey, I'm currently playing with the latest beta. It looks promising and stable! Will certainly test it more during the weekend and will continue with the official update.

I have two points to discuss, if you're in a suggestions mood xD

1) Are you planning more tweaks for seduction scheme and the adultery craziness? I think the issue is till present and still going wild, but not as much as in vanilla game.

2) If you have the time at some point, I'd also love to see more rules or tweaks, concerning AI's external wars, cadet branches, secret bastards, fabricating hooks and secrets, AI's intrigue and seduction, a cooldown for holy wars and conquest wars. Something like ''More Game Rules'' mod, but adjusted to your liking and vision, so we could use only your overhaul mod, but with more options for the user and less conflicts-compatibility issues with with other mods. I think that many user would like that.

3) Vassal's behavior and support according to distance etc

Cheers!

Hi all, while I haven't had a chance to push the update live yet, I think I've found a good way to keep BYZ under control despite the unreliability of factions in 1.3 again. In my current beta, anyone in the BYZ empire cannot declare a holy war unless they are a religious icon. This will keep them from constantly gobbling up small weak Muslim factions that may pop up around them.

I've also plugged a loophole in the existing DoW system. Now anyone who's in the BYZ Empire will need a hook on their liege to declare an offensive war, not just some who's direct liege is the emperor.

In my tests, this seems to have brought BYZ back under control without making them a cakewalk to invade.

Hi all, the updates should be up soon I hope. Just crazy busy with work, but will try to get them "live" as soon as I can.

BYZ is too strong since the patch and unfortunately I've found why. In 1.1 there was a bug where Independence factions would randomly disband. It was solved in 1.2 but appears to be back in 1.3. Factions are a huge part of the BYZ nerf, so it's quite noticeable with them. I've tried to alert PDX to the issue, but since the only way to really PROVE it is with a modified file, they're not going to pay attention.

I have noticed a couple oddities in the 1.3 factions file, so maybe by cleaning it up I can squash the bug myself. If not, I'll have to look for other ways of keeping BYZ down.

@Sud
I very much agree on the 2 previously discussed issues. OP knights and very early Holy Orders need your magical tweaks. Not sure about the Byzantines, haven't played much around their area of map lately. I haven't tested the BETA yet and since your next official update is close, I'll wait for the next release to play-test more.

Please, keep it up!
Cheers!

nerf byzantine again

@Special Sundae

I try to keep the beta maintenance pretty light, and the Steam Workshop is really janky for me with CK3 for some reason. But not to worry, the new version of the mod should be up in a day or two. Honestly, I just need to find the time to work on logging all the changes properly for decent patch notes. The build is stable and everything's working fine.

Curious, what is this issue with being subscribed to PDX and Steam mods?

@Qareen

Sorry to hear you're having issues. As TheLoneWanderer said, the Paradox launcher can create a lot of issues. I would suggest one of two things:

1) Just try the version of the mod in the Paradox Mod DB. It's identical to the Steam version: https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/12175/Any

2) Go through the typical "clean" reinstall process. Remove the game from Steam and delete everything in the Documents/Paradox/CK3 folder. A fresh install from there should fix any hiccups.

That said, it's not the best platform. I actually can't use the Steam version myself of this mod. Ever since I made a version for the Paradox Mod DB, the Steam version never actually turns "on" no matter what I do and blocks any other mod. I'm probably the only modder who's not subscribed to his own mod haha. Thankfully, using the Paradox Mod DB version works for me, so perhaps that'll be an easy fix for you.

It's very likely it is the Paradox Launcher is messed up. Unsubscribe from this mod, and resub. I have had to go to the workshop directory and delete all of my mods because something had happened. It's not uncommon and unless a lot of people are experiencing the same issue with no other mods installed, the issue is isolated to your computer--which is a good thing because that's a lot easier to fix than a mod. Good luck

@ TheLoneWanderer
Indeed :) That is why I started a new game. But now I cannot get game to start at all if I have this only this mod (Sud's Gameplay Overhaul) enabled.

I just now tried starting up the game with every mod that I am using except this one and the game loaded up. Ok, for some reason I cannot get the game to start with this mod enabled. Yet I see no similar complaints in the discussions.

With a mod that makes this many changes, I reccommend always starting a new game

I was very excited to find this mod. I tried it first on a preexisting game and much to my surprise the game worked. Then I thought it would be better to start a new play through given how much this mod changes now the game crashes even though if I only have this mod in the playset in the game launcher.
As far as I can tell the game has not been updated in the last hour or so. I am very confused.

Nice one. Any chance you can mirror the beta onto steam? Subscribing to steam and paradoxplaza mods simultaneously causes issues for multiplayer.

I generally don't recommend people play the beta I keep going outside of big compatibility patches, but if anyone's interested, this change is up there: https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/12533/Any

Hi all, so a few people have called out the Holy Order issue (thanks!) and I've looked into it further.

In a later patch, part of PDX's solution to AI not forming Holy Orders was to give the AI a steep discount and much easier devotion requirement. I'm not against that per se, but it's obviously led to some issues with strong HOs appearing too early.

I'm currently running simulated games with a reworked system. Some help for the AI remains, but the starting point is quite a bit higher (though it gives a big chunk of Piety now). Being a Crusader or Crusader King makes it significantly easier though, so between rulers getting wealthier and some Crusades popping off, you should start to see HOs being formed around the 1100s (primarily testing 867 start). Relatively small sample size so far, but looks promising.

It appears the Pope was responsible for founding them. https://i.imgur.com/x3QkvFE.jpg

@[HMG] Sudhir Here is East Anglia calling in the Knights Templar about a month after game start to fight the sons of lodbrok invasion. I don't think this should be happening? https://i.imgur.com/ywX025T.jpg

Are character knights really abstracted to bring their own retinue? I admit that is the only way to justify their fighting power. But in a game where every single soldier is represented on the battlefield, a character knight is still only presented as 1.

I also love playing tall with knights. I always go for the extra ones from lifestyle perks, and most of my daughters are matrilineally married to the highest prowest males I can find. But in the end, it is only a way to make the game easier for me as a human player.

I'd say we should reduce both their toughness and damage to get a somewhat more realistic battle simulation. I'll leave the numbers to you. :)

--true, the knights and their well equipped, well trained, and experienced men at arms were a very powerful force.

This is a tougher one for me. I want investing in a good pool of knights to be a way to make a bit of a "tall" fighting force. Even in the vanilla game, knights can have pretty inflated kill counts, though it should be kept in mind a "knight" is meant to include his personal retinue, not one dude raging around the battlefield like Rambo.

That said, I'm certainly open to tweaking those numbers. Perhaps reducing damage in favour of toughness? One thing I've been thinking about is just increasing the number of knights broadly but decreasing their individual effectiveness (say doubling all knight caps but reducing their stats by ~50%). That could have knock-on effects throughout the game though with regards to things like population and I barely trust the AI to find 6 good knights, let alone 12.

Sorry, I was not talking about heavy cavalry, I was talking about the in-game characters that fight as knights. They have a damage of 70 per prowess level. It means a 10 prowess character has a damage of 700, a 20 prowess 1400, a rare 30 prowess knight 2100. That is the same damage as 70, 140 or 210 levie soldiers (or a lesser, but still ridiculously high amount of different types of Men at Arms).

It results in character knights often killing more enemies than the rest of your army, check the post battle reports.

A sub mod of Dieu et Mon Droit, Warfare Realism , changed the damage to 15 per prowess. I believe that number worked well. The character knights were still very strong individual fighters, but not demi gods (although the highest prowess characters would still be pretty super human).

A reduction is much needed, in my opinion.

@donkeysaint This is historically authentic, to be fair. Heavy cavalry was the pinnacle of medieval warfare and 'grossly OP' until the invention of gunpowder and matchlocks. That said, for gameplay reasons, pikemen men-at-arms should be more effective at countering them.

How about decreasing knight damage? They are quite overpowered, and kill ordinary soldiers by the hundreds in battles.

I agree. The HO founding cost was one of the original changes back when the AI never made them. I think I'm going to increase that cost again in the next update to make them harder to found in the early game.

See link for relevant save file. drive.google(.)com/file/d/1-5MQSwDZ9pIod5TezJ-a2DTOM5vn0WiA/view?usp=sharing

Also included VIET, community flavour pack, and Norse melting pots + DLC fixes.

The AI creates and uses holy orders too early. Playing Iceland as the Norse chieftain, the Catholic chieftain had 22 learning and was hiring the Knights Templar and the Teutonic Order to attack me with 500+ heavy cavalry in 884 AD.

Thank you for the update! I did use and enjoy the beta too.

@[HMG] Sudhir
Thank you very much! The update looks solid! Will definitely check it during the weekend!
Cheers!

1.3 Update is live! I stability tested it quite a bit so hopefully we're all good, but as always, let me know if it's not.

@Strategos
It is hard to say if a mod is compatible without diving into the code, but at first glance, that first Morven mod you linked should be fine, as should his Adventurer fix (though I've tested neither).

I haven't tested The Community Flavour Pack yet either, but I'd be pretty shocked if that caused problems.

@TheLoneWanderer

Granted! That's why I'm asking Sud, evidently he knows more about his work than me. From a quick glance he'll probably understand more than the average user.

Cheers!

"Compatible" can mean different things to different people as well. Tow mods may not cause a game to crash or have overlapping entries in the various files that are modified by each mod, however they could when combined have unintended consequences that break either game or affect the balance. For example, if each mod changes different values which have a multiplier effect when combined, it would at first appear everything is working until development hits 99 in every territory in 100 years. So without play testing it may not be immediately obvious what the effects are, unless the underlying game systems are known in detail and then the various changes in each file modified are understood. (just my two cents)

@Sudhir
Hi,
Well, you can easily find it by searching ''Morven Mod Pack'' I'm using most of his mods, the fixes I guess will be compatible. I'm not sure about his mods though.
Here's one of his most known mods:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2265131712

Also this one won't be a problem, right?
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2220098919

Thanks again for your time and suggestions.

Hm I can't seem to find that on Steam. My guess would probably be no, if he has lots of changes. The odds of there being overlapping changes would be quite high. That said, since I can't find it, I can't know for sure.

@Sudhir

Hi, another quick question, if I may. How compatible your mod is with Morven's Workshop various mods and fixes? Which evidently are many, but very useful IMO.

Cheers!

@Sudhir
Thank you for the info! I'll definitely check it out along the updated beta!
Cheers!

1.3 beta link is in the description! Will push it "live" in a few days when I'm confident it's stable.

@Strategos
Happy to hear you're enjoying the mod! Unfortunately, MGR touches so many files, they're not really compatible. That said, what makes MGR so great is it's very modular. I'd think if you ensure it loads before this mod and only enable things that aren't affected by the mod (which admittedly would be restrictive), it should work. Would be some trial and error though for sure.

As for the Unique Buildings mod, just loading it first seems to work fine for now, but I'll try to integrate it in the future. Unfortunately the author has disappeared, so I don't want to just jack it without permission. Luckily, it's very basic, so compatibility shouldn't be an issue, but eventually I may just integrate it if the author never shows up on Steam again.

@[HMG] Sudhir

Hi, I can't wait for your updated version. Actually I'm not even playing a serious game without it.
I'd also like to ask how compatible is your mod with ''More Game Rules'' since I have recently started using it. Thing is, it's a must have, since the base game's rules are lacking in so many things and I really don't want to stop using your mod. I'm also interested in your adaptation or addition to ''More Unique Buildings legacy version'' which the author abandoned and it will probably stay not updated forever.

Cheers!

Note: Will work on getting this updated for 1.3, but may take ~ a week as I'm quite busy atm

Hmm I don't want to say it's 100% not the mod since that'll be hard to replicate/test, but I haven't changed those files directly. I suspect it's just that, as you said, there are significantly more factions wars in the mod.

I was aware of the history of Byzantines, just the nerfs felt a little "gamey" to me, but on second thought I can see how it's necessary to make them collapse given how powerful they are with the vanilla game mechanics and the AI doesn't really have an incentive to attack them

I haven't tried it with More Unique Buildings yet, but before downloading the legacy version it gave me a notification that it requires COW2 so that's why I asked, but I will try it soon

I'm not sure if this is a bug related to this mod but I haven't came across this in vanilla: there were multiple occasions when I got stuck in an independence war against one of my former liege who lost the Byzantine Empire after a liberty war even if their new rank was lower than mine (the previous emperor became a count with 0 vassals and I was a duke). It's possible that this happens in vanilla too and just feels more consistent with this mod due to the increased number of faction wars.

Hi there, Glad you're enjoying the mod!

The Byzantines are made quite weak by design. On average, they should "collapse" like they did in real life, though I've still seen games where they remain quite powerful. Their nerfs really aren't meant to be fair, but are really meant to be more of a fix as they're way too consistently powerful in the vanilla game atm.

Related to that, I am hoping to update the mod in the future, though my time is going to be tight in the near future. We'll see when 1.3 comes out. What I'd really like to see is a proper BYZ rework, which would hopefully remove/reduce the need for the somewhat clumsy nerf hammer I've had to use in this mod while also making BYZ actually fun to play. So far the 1.3 changes seem minor, but we'll see what they end up adding.

As for More Unique Buildings, the legacy version of the mod actually doesn't require COW2. I'm yet to have any issues using it, but if you do, definitely let me know!