Lol just follow a bot then. If not that use the old dungeon crawling 'every left' technique. The floor layout isn't that complex. The broadcast station was supposed to have much more detail to make it easier to navigate (bunks in the sleeping area, kitchen sections etc) but Unity kept butchering all the models so I cut most of it after getting sick of Unity's BS.

I can't find the exit int the green building

Sad, but I suppose true.

Though stepping back to my previous comment about him blowing it I suppose that's wrong. I say this because for every one dev/modder/player like myself who sees how broken things are there are 500 more who are kissing SR's arse and praising the game. The positive reviews and butt kissing will ensure failure succeeds. People have become so accustom to garbage code and sloppy design even the worst offenders still rake the cash in and don't care.

Yeah I've reported that. Used to be the AI was OK and this made suppressed weapons useful. You could actually play with stealth. Then a few updates passed and now they will see through objects, shoot you and others. You will now and then see them "shooting at nothing" -walls, rocks, etc because they are targeting another unit through solids. Another issue is despite meshes having collision enabled AI are allowed to walk through objects of certain types. There are soo many issues...Some of my bug reports have been criticized as having more characters than the code the game is built on...but for how crappy the games design it that's probably true. heh.

The worst thing I've encountered so far I think were bots literally locking in on me and shooting me through solid objects. I have no idea how this happens, but it makes all cover, except terrain, really questionable :/

Yeah kinda same same, sadly though the game treats the player as a second class citizen with online balancing despite being SP. There is so much broken / ill thought out it's sad. SR has 100% of a niche market here waiting for the taking and he's blowing it.

Huh. Hey, I got this game because I thought it will be fun to play batlefield with bots that dont swear at me and follow the plan foe once :D

Turned out to be one of the best deals in my life - a preety much sandbox shooter that I can play however I want and as fair as I want. And ofc, no pay to win or balancing issues.

I AM the balance here, heh :)

No not ditched completely, just keep hoping SR will foo-king listen to one of the millions of massive bug report lists I've submitted and perhaps one day I'll wake up and the game won't be garbage so I can finish maps and just enjoy playing a simple shooter without online horsecrap, microtransactions, pay to win mechanics etc. That's why I got RF but I bet on a sleeping horse as it were. I'd take my ideas elsewhere if there was elsewhere to take them. If Tarkov continues to be playable offline via *shifty eyes* tools...and they open it to modding then my RF days will be more than over...unless SR steps it up and proves he's not incompetent.

Jeez, I didnt know its this bad when it comes to ambiance in "night" in-game option.
I mean, its obvious you cant modify the lighting and make some light sources work only on night version of the same map. So you gotta do the separate map.

But I had no idea everything else breaks just as hard too.

*side note #2* lol damned small input boxes! When I say the day/night selection in game is broken I mean it works but not really. So as a map maker your lighting options aren't the same for day and night. So basically if you want maximum control over lighting/fog/ambiance you are forced to only use "day." So if you want to make a night map with all the same control you have to make a separate version using the "day" despite it being a night map...good times...ug.

Good luck with everything you have to do!
There is absolutely no need to rush with the map. At all. You dont owe me a single thing, Im happy to hear that you haven;t abandoned the project completely :D

XD
I know, I KNOW! I know there is a completely differrent map for day version XD
But thank you nonetheless :)

*side note* I just tossed a prelim model of the new "thing" in the map and this may take some time. However if I do a reduced (whirling only) snow version I'll also be creating some new ambient audio to fit the stillness...so again...might be a bit given I've got a thousand other projects on the go. A lot of my coding time is now split between woodworking and gardening as summer comes.

Both night and day use fog, just the hue makes one more obvious because the lighting available in the development tools kinda sucks. It's a rather "90's era DX 6 to 9" style blending mechanic. Also when I say day time I don't mean the in game "day/night" selection (that crap is broken). Both the day and night version of this map default to "day" for the in game option.

The day version is https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2349443004

Day version lacks the dynamic lighting that will be hard for your APU.

And, ofc, I will use day version of the map instead for a while, thank you :D

Hey, improvements are improvements! No matter if its expanding or optimising :D

Actually, comsidering the night version has somewhat reduced visibility...
Why not combine some fog with LODs on most things? This surely will help with renerring on night version of the map.

Heh it's less about optimizing further, just had an idea to add/expand. I'm frustrated that the map I want to continue the most is DOA. My industrial maps perform very well because the models are massive rather than numerous. Though I suspect as I worked through the interiors of the offices and equipment buildings things will slowly become as worthless as on Home Sweet. Part of why I stopped was because it was worthless to continue and end up in the same spot. However my released maps outside HSVH all have some breathing room. Though again for you the daytime version of this is what you should be running as the lighting will really reduce your overhead.

ohh, thats how it wooorks....
Thank you for clearing this up!

"Non-Solid" is best to just say "modeled" because you can make the models non-solid. :) The difference is one is a "picture" -nothing more (well I suppose "face this direction, move from A to B), the other has a 3D "mesh" (wireframe) that the engine has to calculate against. There is/was a lot of discussion about mesh optimization for triangle vs quad geometry but it's all way out of scope when the game can't do anything well heh. Either way be glad your on an A and not an E. AMD E chips were "Efficient" and often times barely able to compare to ancient AMD Semprons from 10+ years before heh. A at least has a GPU(ish).

Well, thank you for the talk.
I hope you will find a way to improve what you want to improve. Also, thanks again for keeping the idea of optimising the map further :)

Good luck out there, have a great day!

Sadly so and it will be a few years before things kinda normalize again...ug. I'm not sure I'd say new props but a new model that kinda moves a few things, makes better use of some area and might open things up to something else but I'll leave it vague for now. I may add some LOD for the few trees/rocks but we'll see.

Yep. I would get myself a better PC... If there was one at a sane price :/
Already got some money, that would be enough for an average-good machine, like... a year or 2 ago? Not a monster rig for sure.

You've been thinking about updating the map with new props and stuff? Nice! Lets see if you will be able to do a "optimisation cleanup", lets call it like that, as well.

Sorry, turns out I dont understand much about optimisation in this game XD
I remember a few things from Source engine, but that is mainly scraps I stumbled upon when was creating an addon. Seems like things are differrent here.

Oh, I see. So, the effects dont hurt the performance as much as collision calulations in RF, right?
So... This basically means that non-solid "effects" of things like trees will perform better even if these are 3d-ish?

Restricting weapons for teams for 1-2 things per team... Yep, I have done it already. I mean, I try to keep my gamemore more or less clear of things that won't be used. I even miss out on alot of weapon packs simply because I dont want something I will never use take up my inventory and resources. Thank you, I will see what else I haven't tried and you mentioned.

And you are right, older source games (insurgency indeed) run preety much smoother... Well, more or less... than this game on a larger map.

Part #5: Just was thinking about how garbage the AMD A and E CPU/APU's where and was thinking man this dude just needs to buy a real machine...but that's kinda not possible with the chip shortages and insane price gouging...I've been waiting for Zen 3 based Threadrippers but now that looks like a non-starter even if I had an extra $5000 to blow.

Part #1: Was going to say you're not running a Mac on an AMD A6. IGP == Intergrated Graphic Processor. IGP is in most cases useless for gaming not just because they are weak but because they often lack basic shader and API capabilities. That is changing now but it's still the vast reality. This is another problem with RF. It looks "light" and I have heard of a lot of people thinking they can buy it and it will run on their crappy old machines when in fact it's more intensive than most AAA titles. You're better off with old Source engine games like Insurgency...if NWI hadn't broken it and left it for dead. Win 7...that's dangerous. Win 7 was a decent OS but with no security support you're a sitting duck.

Part #2: If your machine is low end the #1 you can do is restrict everything. No nades, no side arms, one rifle model per team. A build or so after the game launched on Steam there was an issue where things like missles were not cleared from levels. They accumulated and ended up the same as things like the med/ammo bags. So you could start a game and have high FPS but a bot in a fighter spamming rockets would soon drag your FPS to unplayable. The complexity of models isn't the issue, it's simply the sheer number so restricting things will do the most for FPS. This said this is also why I say occlusion on these maps will help more than removing the snow.

Part #3: The particle effects are virtually meaningless in terms of performance hit. This is inpart to me manually mapping sizes and durations to not need collision calculations. Collisions for example when enabled will take these maps and make them unplayable even on my AV/DAW workstation. However as they are now they are just mass copied sprites i.e. what the meshes should be to have high performance.

Part #4: Anyhow back to modeling. It's amusing you popped in asking about these maps when you did because a few days ago I saw some new Russian winter "gear" modular buildings, new RF towers etc. that gave me an idea for these. I have two core ideas...not sure how far I will take it yet but we'll see.

Intel GP?.. Uh... AMD A6? I guess... I may have just called a completely different thing cause of translation and own stupidity, lel.

My laptop is actually running an integrated graphic sonly. You know, uses up a part of RAM instead of own memory like normal cards do? Yeah, been a long time since I own dat laptop, at that times that actually was enough to run my fav games, heh.

Heheh, nono, Im deeefinetely not running MacOS. Just somewhat old laptop with Win7.
Im just very curious about all that mapping stuff, not because I wanna try making a map, nono, its just that you are a great storyteller, actually. Plus, time to time I pick out some very useful bits of info on how to make my game run a tad smoother :D

Also, this is extremely interesting info about respawntimers. I even used to have that permadeath mut installed and was using it time to time :)

Speaking of MacOS it drives me nuts the old version of Unity doesn't allow a default export target...always defaults back to Windows which I couldn't care less about exporting for.

Pancakes? Ban? Le what?

There are lots of reasons for hangs and lag in RF, but yeah, set the respawn long and more bots end up qualifying and you make the hang "bigger." However you can set the timer longer than it will actually go. This is one of the many UI issues where the UI is broken and misleading to what is presented. Use fest1ve's permadeath https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2233445341

So based on what you've said you're on MacOS I'm guessing running an Intel IGP?

Oh no, it isnt a community ban, is it? D:

Ah, yes. I noticed that massive lag spike if I set long respawntimes for bots as well.
So, thats why its happenning. Good to know.

Well, good luck enjoying Tarkov in the meantime :)
If you want some pancakes, you can just add me and write something, I will sent a plate immetiately! I wanted to gift you those actually... You have no trade offer link cause hidden profile page. :(

Part #1:Well there is a lot of caveat to *should* in this case. Most defend SR/RF with the excuse of single developer, early access. Sadly though this argument falls apart when you call the product Beta and release for EA. Optimization normally comes last but there has to be some eye on the prize other wise you get to the end, say "RIGHT! Time to optimize!" and realize your code base took so many liberties it's impossible to tame things without starting over from scratch. I've been writing code since the mid 80's...I don't know everything but I know SR has made a real mess with RF.

Part #2: Mac OS can run baked lighting just fine. The problem is SR has RF locked into an ancient version of Unity and if you use platform specific features you have to export individual builds for every platform. I.e. baked lighting has to be "baked" separately for Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android, iOS, etc. Baked is more performant, but it sucks for realism. There is also a hybrid rendering you can do where the lighting is static/baked but will be dynamic when a specific object class moves through the rendered path. In the world of optimising there is a lot of trickery that can take place...SR has just made sure RF does't use most of it and what is available is crippled.

Part #3: Sadly with Home Sweet Valley Home I wanted to create an area similar to my home. However the tree count decimates things. Even after halving the size of the map it's just too much. GPU mesh instancing allows you to load a models mesh into GPU memory and just "copy" it over and over. The alternative which RF does is every mesh is loaded as a unique mesh. So a model that says uses 10MB of VRAM and X% GPU resources will be 10MB+X% * model count = overhead death (20 trees approx = 200MB+overhead). If RF was using mesh instancing you'd be looking at more like 12MB (10MB for the model and a few MB for XYZ differences and location for placing the duplicates).

Part #4: Lately I just play Tarkov and find it amusing since it's the same "engine" i.e. Unity. While they are building on a current Unity version a lot of Unity's short comings are still there. Despite that though they are able to do much denser and complex landscapes with little to no performance hit. Their LOD is heavily implemented and despite also being EA the game looks about what you'd expect from a modern game at "reasonable" resource overhead...for now. One of the more amusing problems is they are dumping all player data into singular massive json files which is where a lot of Tarkovs performance hits come in. However you can also notice when NPC Scavs spawn in like in RF. The same bottle neck happens when you cue bots all at the same time.

Part #5: I've reported bugs and pointed this out for years but the RF "respawn" system is garbage. It's not only negative for the player but the fact it dumps all the bots at the same time causes a huge bottle neck...one of many. If the bots were given indiviual timers it would be less taxing (despite tracking more stats) as spawning in a single (or few) bots is smoother than dumping in everyone that died and is now elligable for respawn. This is also part of why Tarkov has low Scav/Player numbers. The massive json data files along with this Unity bot dump issue creates a real performance issue.

1/2) Im sorry to hear that you, as a creator, an artist, are held back not even by game's engine, but by gamedev's outrageous non-existent attention to optimisation possibilities.
I suppose RF doesn't even have something as simple as render distance on props, right? Well, atleast we have laughable 2d trees renderring at distance of 20 meters.

Thank you so much for mentioning ammo/med bags causing this much trouble. I would never think something so tiny and simple will be calculated all the time. Simply because this obviously should've been optimised properly, right?

2/2) Also, I always was curious why "baked" lighting is often ignored in maps. Well, except the fact that Mac cant render this and turns foliage into pitch-black shadows. Its supposed to only render lighting once the map loads and keep it that way, right? Does this cause much trouble except making moving/blinking light sources impossible?

I hope you will find a way to make HSVH map as close as you see it as an artist. I wanna share some pancakes with you, it is not much, but I suppose this will make you a little happier :)

Pt: #1 Heh well sadly I've thought many times about making my own FPS rather than wait on SR to unferk the mess we find RF in but a few years ago some industry issues made me say "F development." Honestly I'd like to finish all my maps for RF but the game is just to deficient to do so right now. I had a few ideas for these last week though which calls for a bit of modeling. When I get that done I'll add it, toss in some fine grain occlusion calculations on top of a low/no snow variants.

Pt: #2 Home Sweet Valley Home is the map I most want to have done. Sadly with all the tricks I can pull off without RF code base you still need a RTX 2080 minimum so it's a waste of time for now. HSVH is literally half the size it's supposed to be with a about 2/5ths the trees, almost no vegetation or detail. TL;DR Steel Raven needs to add/enable GPU Mesh instancing or the game will always be 5h17. This is also why you can't let bots use med/ammo bags. When they spam them on spawn you can go from 120+ FPS to 12FPS because the game can't instance the med/ammo bags model meshes.

Whoa... Thank you for such a response. A surprise for sure, but a welcome one.

Well, I can not make you do what I need, plus you have solid reasoning behind your statements. Im happy you want to work on something else, instead of just leaving the cursed madmaking for this game altogether.

Who knows, maybe one day, when you will achieve everything you may want, maybe we will see the remastered version of this map, occuled "to the extreme" and with some more changes, heh?

Good luck with your projects!

IGP/mGPU will struggle with the dynamic lights of the night version but I can make a less/no snow version in a bit. I think adding the extreme occlusion I used to *try* to make Home Sweet Valley Home playable will do more for your frames. I will be adding that to updates but I have some modeling to do before I update these.

By any chance we could recieve a version without active snowfall?

I know, it it the main epic feature of the map, but I reeeally like the map, the layout, that fog; while active snowfall just kills the framerate on my laptop. The map was released on Jan. and there was note you might be done mapmaking, but maybe there is a chance you still have the source for the map to crop out snowfall real quick?

very nice

太有感觉了!!!