Hello, mods from this series are in TWW 3?

For some reason, this won't apply to all units in the "unit tree". F.e: units from other mods that use the same tree as Black Orcs normally get all the buffs and passive abilities a lord/event/etc gives the "black orc" tree. This is the first mod ever I've seen it only works for super specific units, not whole unit trees. So, to put an exmaple, in SFO (using the SFO submod) you have "The Immortulz", a legendary unit of Black Orcs for Grimgor. Every single mod I've tried in this last 2 years affected them correctly, being it a SFO specific sub-mod or not. In this mod, they receive none of the lord buffs. Not sure how you made the buffs to work like this :_D

I think give Skarsnik's trait a armies ability to summon night goblin like menace below could be nice and fitting his theme.

And each tier unlock another type of unit for him.
Tier 1 : Night Goblin.
Tier 2 : Night Goblin and Night Goblin archer.
Tier 3 : Lock Squig Hopper, 2 charges.

Thank you for the mod, SFO submod link is here:

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2675706012

So i am not sure if i missed something but for grom the feast ability for the goblins is not restoring health however it is lowering the stats of the attack and defence

note that they are allowed to be Champion of Gork (or Mork) How do you do this

Are arrer boyz intentionally not affected by Azhag's trait?

@Noir it is intended yes because Grom doesn't do Nightgobbos

Is it intended that Nightgoblin aren`t getting the boni from Groms trait?

@Kleriker Solomon --- My pleasure.

Thank you so much :D

@WRLegion
Thank you for response. I agree with you.

@modmodmod --- I am aware that Lizardmen mod needs an update. But I also believe it is the only one that still needs an rework. I think other races are in a ok position. (Also it takes time and I am on a break)

I love your diversity series. This series makes the campaign interesting.
But compared to your initial mode (ex. Lizard Man), this greenskins mod is op.
Lizardmen’s Nakai only receives 5% speed in stage 1, while Greenskins’s Grimgore receives 5% speed, ma, md, Charge and Anti-Infantry Bonus from Black Orcs in stage 1.
I don't like discussing balance in individual mods. But I think this difference is too big and unreasonable.
Please correct these imbalances between races. Thank you.

@jacek.stasiak --- If CA can convince me to buy the original beastmen DLC with this rework, yes. But there are still races I will visit before the beastmen.

Could you create Legendary Diversity for Beastmen ?

@Ming Da Merciless --- Thank you.

Your diversity mods are the best!

@Victorus Aut Mortis --- I assume you are talking about the High Elf mod but I appreciate your support.

using this with your mods with SFO, I was playing an Alith Anar campaign and with Tyrion was only using the low tier units that this mod buffs (lothern sea guard, Ellyrian reavers) plus shadow walkers for archers and I have gotta say, once you reach level 30 it makes them viable in the late game (on normal battle at least). can't go without your mods anymore.

@TheLaughingLama --- I think you found a bug from CA. It would seem to me that the ROR version of Night goblin archers are not getting any of the cauldron alternate missile anyway.

Since the implementation is exactly the same for these units (and for the skaven units and it would seem they work well with Ikit's workshop). So I have no idea why they react differently to different mechanic/effect.

@WRLegion but yeah that's all I got -> if you can do something with it great, if not sorry I could not have been more helpful and thanks for all your effort man, appreciate it nevertheless. Your mods have been pretty great.

@WRLegion -- yeah i agree, I guess it would be quite tedious to implement and would not function very elegantly either in the end.

My suggestion then would be, before completely giving up to try and look into how the RoR variant (Da Rusty Arrer) works with your Mod in Skarsnik's army and try to reverse engineer it on others. Because I tested 4 different ammo types on Goblin Archers (Grom), N. G. Archers and N. G. Archers Fanatics (Skarsnik) and all respond vastly differently depending on the buff so I wouldn't ponder on them. (some override only specific units and leave others in tact, some ruin all of them etc.)

However, the RoR version seems to be completely immune to all ammo type changes after your Mod; thus it doesn't nerf them while running a random cauldron dish which is for me the real issue.

So apparently in their case your Mod has priority and actually works quite nicely and perhaps we could apply that to others as well?

@TheLaughingLama --- There are multiple reasons why I prefer this approach to the brute force approach:

1. The Brute force approach tends to flood the description panel. A new missile weapon can contain multiple simple effects (+AP damage, -Non-AP damage, + range, ...)

2. Effects like "Double shots" are simply not possible via simple effects. I could just turn the double shot into single shot with double damage, but they will behave differently. Also other things like Caliberation area/distance, plantation ignore time cannot be changed via simple effects.

So I think I will have to leave it like this. I hope CA will open up more possibilities in Warhammer 3 but I think for now, there is nothing I can do about this.

@WRLegion - hmm what if we try to sort of "brute force" it, similar to how you do melee stats or as scrap upgrades; e.g. for Skarsnik you'd do +1400 % armor piercing missile damage (so it brings the 1 to 15) and i.e. +30% range so it brings 115 to 150 (a bit higher than now but since base range is lower, after the scrap upgrade of +20% we'd get to 172 (now being 174 so roughly the same) -> looking after other GS factions so we won't screw them over; for Grom the base range is irrelevant as there are no additional buffs in tech tree/scraps so if you want the 180 e.g. +56,5 % range, -40% Base MD (15 to 9) and +300% APM (1 to 3) etc. (the numbers might be off) double shot -> i dont know how you did it but assuming "increased number of projectiles by 1" and slower reload time maybe e.g. -100% - (as reference my fully buffed archers on Grom get to 8.1 and normal base is 8)

@TheLaughingLama --- I don't know if it's possible to fix. I usually give units a new missile weapon (It is the most convenient way and opens up more possibilities). And these cauldron effects also give them a new missile weapon. As such only one will be applied and I don't know how to prioritize my weapon over the cauldron one.

@WRLegion sorry been away for a few days, good job on RoR spider fix. The archers however, might pose a more difficult challenge. Since I'm not a coder/modder, I cannot offer very solid advice, but the quick fix would be probably to look at how your and cauldron's buffs apply to "Da Rusty Arrers" and try to replicate the process on normal variants for Skarsnik and Grom. Or just sort of make your ammo change have priority over other effects, combining them might be difficult.
I also noticed that, the RoR version has "armor sundering" ammo and your buff changes it to poison on Skarsnik. so the reason could be how Grom's cauldron buffs apply -> normal variant get messed up because the cauldron applies both the ammo type change and range buff (for example when using "Wing Leather"); the RoR version only gets the range change and is immune to ammo type change (even on other lords) however I only have access to 2 ammo types atm so cannot check for all.

@Watch out, it's Dr. Piss --- You can always test using the mod "Console command (modding tool)" to give free XP to your LL and test if the traits show up. With the new script free xps given through other scripts will actually count.

@WRLegion The problem was, the trait was simply not even appearing. I started a Grom campaign, it wasn't there. I had the same issue with a Grimgor campaign.

What I've come to realize is I'm just a goofball because I forgot it doesn't fire until your Lord hits level 10. Kind of embarrassing in hindsight, as I've been using the Legendary Diversity mods for my last several campaigns. So, I'll get back to the campaign and see if it works, though I'm sure it will. If you don't hear from me again, just assume the "problem" is fixed lol.

Thanks for your time, I appreciate the response and your work!

@Watch out, it's Dr. Piss --- Please be more specific. What is not working? Are the Traits not triggering or are effects not applying?

Doesn't seem to be working for me... Wish I had more to offer than that :(

@TheLaughingLama --- That's interesting, I always thought effects with smaller scope overwrite effects with larger scope. If that isn't the case then there is probably some random stuff happening when deciding which missile to apply. I might have to do some more experimenting to see if I can do anything about it. But thanks for the information, very helpful.

The ROR version was a bug (I honestly never use ROR in my main army so stuff like these tends to be forgotten). I have fixed it and uploading fix.

Additionally what I did find out is that, for example the spider buffs (Raknik spiderclaw) do apply to "Lava spider rider archers" (special variant), it however does not apply to its RoR unit (Deff Creepers), there might also be some other inconsistencies, but I only have 4 LLs so far

The real issue is that for example Elven Foie Gras recipe, which I use a lot, since it speeds up global recruitment, apparently messes up Skarsnik and possibly some others as well, thank for your info/help man, really appreciate the effort, it even though it might not be so easy to resolve

@WRLegion Nevermind I sort of "answered" my own issue -> it was indeed the cauldron that was causing the issues, I just did not realize that I had "Eagle talons" active (anti infantry ammunition for goblin and night goblin missle units), interestingly it only messed up Skarsnik's buff (oddly not the ROR version), but Grom's stayed in tact, I know however for a fact that the other one (Wing Leather - 10% range for Goblin and NIght Goblin infantry units) messes up both Skarsnik's and Grom's buff as well (reverts it back to original range and then buffs by 10%) probably some others as well but do not have those yet;However there is some positive -> the ROR version of Night Goblin Archers (Da Rusty Arrers) is affected correctly for both ammo types (the value does not get reverted and also gets additional 10% -> from 145 to 160 with Wing Leather)

@WRLegion --- hmm don't think so, i do use some mods but mostly just quality of life stuff like lord respec, recruit legendary lords etc., but I used your other diversity mods for high elves and dark elves with the same setup pretty much and never had any issues (rly good job on those btw)

What I did notice in this one is as I am playing Grom: if I have for example some cauldron buffs active such as Eagle talons, or Winged leather (those green ones who change ammo type/increase range) it would "screw up" also Groms buffs to normal goblin archers (but after I use another recipe, it reverts back to intended 180 range) so there might be a similar issue, however in Skarsnik's case, no matter the recipe (I have active something that doesnt apply to goblins at all for example) the ammo type doesnt work, so I would assume there might be an issue there how the "base range change; armor pen ammo is phrased" maybe?

@TheLaughingLama --- Do you use any mod that changes these units? I can confirm it applies to night goblin archers in my campaign.

New missile weapons are applied directly to unit keys while abilities are given to unit sets. Perhaps one of your mods replaced the normal units and they have a different key now?

@WRLegion it appears to apply to neither normal or fanatics variant (I recruited both just in case), however oddly enough they do get the "Fungus volley" ability, but that's about all they get, also i checked the regiment of renowned version (Da Rusty Arrers) and those do in fact get the bonus range and damage buff

@TheLaughingLama --- Are you using fanatics or the "normal" variant?

@aeON --- No, I don't think it is possible to assign LLs with their own army template.

@TheLaughingLama --- Pretty sure the bonus was applying for my campaign. Is the trait triggering? Do they get their ability?

When I said archers, i meant goblin archers for Grom and Night goblin archers for Skarsnik

@WRLegion is there any reason why Skarsnik buffs would only apply to melee units but archers don't seem to get buffed (range stays at 115) I am playing as Grom the Paunch and his archers correctly got buffed to 180 range when I reached level 30. Tnx for help/info.

Hi I am a little confused, so will the AI finally build units according to their skill tree advantages? Like will Grimgor have black orcs and not a bunch of doom divers and orc boar boy bigguns?

@cattlekiller --- Changing army template for specific LL would actually be a feature that I want to add, but I don't think it is possible. Thank you for your kind words.

@WRLegion , yeah makes sense about the AI not really building armies to take advantage of the buffs.
Yeah cant wait for the next faction released, great job so far!

@cattlekiller --- I don't think it will affect the difficulty a lot? For me I never go to war with other LLs of my race, so if they get their traits is irrelevant to me. Also this mod does not change the army templates for races. LLs controlled by AI do not build their armies according to these traits. Even when you go to war with them, it doesn't make that much of a difference. (Unless the AI lucks out)

Now when I am finished with all races, I will release an "All-in-One" version which will have features allowing you to toggle what races are getting the benefit of this mod. I don't see why this is needed for a single race.

Just found this and the series, these are awesome and I'm glad you plan to do all the factions.
I do have a suggestion, could you add the option in MCT to enable/disable for Player and AI? So you could have a harder(disable for the player) or easier(disable for the AI) campaign.

@AKIRA_SONN --- It works with SFO, but it is not balanced for SFO. And I do not make balance patches since I don't use SFO myself.

are these mods compatible with SFO? i see there is an SFO patch for the elves but what about the rest of them?

@Crazy Fuka warboy --- Fun fact, even with +30 Melee Defence, they still have less Melee Defence than Chosen. So statswise they are actually much weaker than vanilla chosen (even after the buff) and Chosen are by no means invincible.

@WRLegion
i see what you mean, that way Orc boyz would be cannon fodder, but i feel like Bretonnia, Chaos, Vampire Counts, Norsca and maybe the Lizardmen would struggle a lot and even then, not all armys have range or magic
Chosen, Stegadons and cavalery or anything meele simply wouldn't hit Orc Boyz
Maybe like 10% wardsave or physical resistance with some missile resistance and 15 Meele Defence