@TallestDavid , for hoplites, no, the first rank was also overarm. Realistically the aspis is too large to use with an underarm grip while also having shields overlap. There are also frankly no important targets at that height compared to a potential thrust to the face or throat above.

nice stuff. shorter spears now you are missing :D
the front row hadunderhand while back was overhand but this is cool classic rome I nostagia

Here was the historical depictions again, for the record. :) https://imgur.com/a/wxA7qoo

And there's a ton of videos of people using the spear that way online.

Oh, you're fine!

i am so sorry

@ jan io accidentally presseed the delete button twice you can rewrite your post

Ironically it's actually underarm usage in formation of a long, one-handed spear that is rendered dysfunctional, especially w/a buttspike. The RTW models of phalanx spears are ungodly unrealistic, but even in concept they get away with it by staggering the actual formation rightward as they move back, treating the spears like pikes. There's no evidence for hoplites doing this whatsoever, and quite the opposite, they formed and fought by files. Staggering makes sense for pikes because realistically, the huge length of a sarissa means you can get a huge amount of men further back actually able to project their pikes forward and support the first rank. Spears are too short for that, and at most you'll only have 2-3 ranks able to engage at once, not to mention they would be pretty useless held at the low height they are in-game, as the majority of enemies have shields which they could and would use to trap or move aside the spears.

Generally speaking, it's especially useful if: A) You have a particularly large shield. B) You want to be able to defend yourself with both tools. C) You're in a close formation. D) If you want the option to throw or 'gig' your spear out at your enemy. It's a powerful and dynamic stance, but could be considered more fatiguing than the more typical underarm.

Toward the Classical period in Greece the dory spear was already showing evidence, (both pictorial and archaeologically) of getting quite long, fairly tapered, and rear-weighted. There's no saying if -every- single spear was done this way, but it develops into the norm in depictions across time. In the Archaic period the hoplite was fewer in number, extremely wealthy and used two dual-purpose, shorter spears which they often threw. Toward the Classical era, far more men were capable of arming themselves as such, and the norm soon became mass mobilizations of hoplite-centered armies. These wider, deeper formations who no longer skirmished but fought as shock spearmen coincide with the elongating and rear-balancing of the hoplite spear.

The 'weird idea' comes from the overwhelming majority of evidence both pictorial, written, and practical. Not only is it present in a majority of Greek imagery as the most popular grip for the dory, this grip was very common for infantry and cavalry across cultures in Western Europe and across time, surviving as long as the spear was coupled with the shield. It is ubiquitous in Europe, and has use even in surviving Renaissance or later dueling manuscripts. Simply put, it was used, and most likely quite a lot in war, due to the prevalence of shields in the offhand married with a spear in the other.

@Hallvard + @SMG Hunter16

Generally speaking, if your spear has no tapering, or buttspike/cap, and is more or less uniform in thickness, depending on the weight of the head it's going to be middle-ish or forward-weighted. This is a good spear for throwing (as it'll always land head-first), or using as a short-pike in two hands from the rear, or for using up close, (at extreme ranges you just angle the back end upward, and the weight becomes manageable and you can use it at very short ranges) but it's not a great spear for fighting with at range using one hand without gigging it out, because even if you brace it under your elbow (the worst way to use a spear), your ability to accelerate it at maximum length repeatedly is hindered by it's huge forward-heavy inertia. Smaller heads, tapering, and the addition of hardware on the -other- end of the spear, which Greeks specifically made a lot of, brings that point of balance further back.

But this is good for now

@Hallavard i mainly did this as a personal thing it was weird seeing how every spear unit in the game simply copies the macedonian phalanx if i could teach my self 3d animation i'd create a whole separate animation my self for the hoplites

@Hallvard it's because of vase paintings showing a mix of overhand and under, and probably more recently, from 300. now while i'd agree on assuming a lot of hoplites probably wouldnt use overhand, i can see how it'd be a good situational thing for say second or third line to use to reach over and into the enemy formation.

Where did this weird idea that hoplites held their spears overarm come from?
To hold a spear overarm, you have to hold it near the middle. You've now halved the reach of your spear, and added a long stick pointing behind you, interfering with your allies.

better close up of hoplites https://i.imgur.com/0ihj7J1.jpg