@jarpe Ovens of Sins ain't unique to this mod, though? Don't blame the mod for your own bad fortune in finding Ovens lol You CAN also create Ovens through a ritual. Dunno why I'm telling you this when I know well enough that you've not subbed to this thread, and thus will never see this.

I played sveral times and didnt find one oven of sins. Not a good mod.

Nah. Not me.

so is anyone else starting the game and getting beelined by every hellhound in the game

I've tried games with multiple Unknown Sinners before and usually had them work properly, for what it's worth. Not always, but usually.

Disclaimer for anyone trying this... It seems having more than one Unknown Sinner bugs the others out. I decided to have my next game be of 3 Unknown Sinners, just in case the first got a terrible start or got massacred. The first? Worked FINE. The second? Somehow ended up with his start in Hades. Hmm. How strange. The third, though? Claimed to have his start in Elysium proper, but you can't actually see it. He has no vision in Elysium, you can't zoom to his troops or his citadel, and he can't recruit any troops. The Hades start can recruit Ghost Warriors, Spectral Archers, and Spectral Horsemen. But that won't do much good long-term, as the commanders are slowly taking damage due to being in Hades. This is with the three on separate teams. I'm gonna try a game with them all together to see if having them spawn near each other cleans this up, as much as I'm loathe to do so.

With all three on the same team, it works out. But separate teams? Nope. It bugs out.

Holy Hell (heh), this is a rough mod. Or I just got royally screwed in my start lmao I started on an "island" spawn, with the only nonmagma route off being guarded by a relatively strong Devil army on a tower bridge. I save-scummed to see how I could cope against him, and I came close, but lose nonetheless. So I was forced to leave the imps and bloodsworn home to guard while taking the sinners out as a scouting force, HOPING to find something of value. Got assaulted by a small force of Hellhounds. Lost many of my sinners, while binding 3 of the hounds. Still have yet to find anything weakly guarded. So much magma. I got a lousy start lmao

Ja, that's why I use the'AI Suicide Prevention' Mod. There are some other Starting Defender mods out there, but none of the others work as well for modded classes, so far as I'm aware.

Ya, it's a shame that they haven't fixed that for mods yet, but back to the classes in question. They both, unfortunately, do what I was talking about on any difficulty, pretty much you will have to force the AI not to do that stupid stuff (taking away their 2nd commander and putting stationary defenders in their base).

No it is not. To give the AI a helping hand would require a separate mod. If you plan on having an AI play any of those classes I suggest having higher difficulty.

I don't know if it's easier now to change the startup army for a player and the AI or if you still have to make two copies of the same mod like you had to do back in COE4 (one copy, just for the AI to play with and the other for the player), but the AI for both the "Unknown Sinner" and "Fir Bolg" really need help at the start of the game. The AI for both of the classes put almost all their troops on their none important commander while taking out their main commander with little to no troops and leaving almost nothing back at home to defend their bases with, which is really bad for such hostile planes.

The rock wall is on all 3 to prevent both planes from reaching each other. There is no other way at the current moment for modders to do this. As for the blood sacrifices the reason there is a limited amount is to make the player build oven of sins over half buried sinners and use the ovens they find for lesser demons/devils via sinners (not sinner archers) The mod is designed to make sure the class does not snow ball way too quickly for the other classes on Elysium to handle for when they do invade. This invasion ritual system is the intended way of going back to Elysium and not the rock so no shovel/digging will be giving to them. Finally when it comes to scouts I'll add them.

A major issue for the Sinner is their near-total lack of acute senses and spirit sight, especially in the Inferno where Shadow Imps, Fiends of Darkness and Heliophagi might be randomly camping out in a random mine or citadel and totally ruin your army. Technically you can get spirit sight from Succubi, sure, but those ladies are awfully rare and extremely expensive, particularly given the paucity of sacrifices you tend to encounter for most of the game, so they are a late-game solution to an early-game problem. The easy fix would be to just give acute senses to one of your starting commanders (maybe the Sinner of Greed starts with it to make it the ultimate scout, and/or the Unknown Sinner can gain it after he levels up), or at least give the class a scouting unit.

Also, could the class start with a claimed Oven of Sins? It would make earlygame sacrifices at least a little easier to manage. I wish that infernal cities and Villages of the Damned also gave one or two sacrifices (and possibly Abandoned Mines too, to make them more interesting for non-gem classes), but I know that that's something for Illwinter rather than a thing modders can fix (so far as I'm aware).

I've noticed that the starting portal almost always spawns inside a rock wall. Same for the Fir Bolg, which can make for some very weird map gen given that the Primal Plane is a lot more open than the Inferno. Is that intentional? If not, and if it can't be fixed, then those classes should be able to access tunneling. Maybe use an event to give them the Tunneling Shovel, if you don't want to make a new unit (Sinner Miners, perhaps)?

That is false. Oven of Sins give 2 sacrifices each and the class can build more in their tier 2 rituals. As for the magma river that is just bad RNG which can happen with any class and how the game makes the world.

There's no way to gain sacrifices in Inferno except for Trade, and there's nothing stopping you from literally spawning in a magma river with no way to get your bloodsworn anywhere. Or your imps, since they burn too.

Can you post details in the bugs discussions so I know what you are seeing.

I'm using your Killer Queen mod and the Unknown Sinner mods only.

Also can you list off any/all other mods you are using. After some tests I have yet to replicate your results.

Also can you post any details you can think of when it comes to that glitch in the discussions.

I'll look into that. Thanks for the bug info!

Infernal Start is a level of unholy brutality, since Inferno is actively hostile with extremely formidable armies. Maybe implement some static starting defenses to mitigate the 'horde of hellhounds rolls up and obliterates your full starting army" issue? Beyond that, the cultist mastery ritual turns them into a sinner archer with no powers.