Any idea what to do when the lakes are not being registered at all? I know it's not your mod even in vanila I have "from lake always 0% per sol" I have 4 giant lakes, 9 large lakes and one small lake but on the water overview it say 0 % at ll lake sizes. not even a 0.01 is displayed. even loss of water is shown as 0.028. Also even in your mod it says 0% lake for the atmosphere calculation. I ahve destroeyed and rebuild the lakes multiple times in vanila, and hoped your mod might fix it but no luck so far.

Could you somehow make it that solar panels don't generate power during rain? (just like they do at night?)

Seems like the vaporators 0.005% was too low and the game just ignored it. I had to bump it to 0.02%. Now it seems to work fine.

Water vaporators are not reducing the water level, just displays in the UI the info, but not actually subtracting anything.
I think you need to Sum the water vapor penalty into the "water loss" in order to make it work.
Example: build 20 vaporators and 1 great lake, the net should be 0, but actually the water level increases.

I'm not sure the water vaporators are reducing the water as intended - they seem to be countering the Water Escape penalty for me?

i played this game 100% is can do that space projcet is very important use this mod.

I actually didnt try it out at the moment. But Dude, this Mod looks awsome from the description and the balance it ads to the most borring part of the game if u played it one time. So, thx a lot for this nice work and i think i will enjoy it more then once!

xerxes0 your 100% vegetation and water is the reason why you can't increase temperature over 25%. The in game mod description is pretty clear, they both reduce temperature (Low Cloud Effect and Vegetation Cooling Effect). So you need to wait temperature high enough before working on water and vegetation, they are not supposed to be over-terraformed. Without water or vegetation I can increase temperature very easily

I have atmosphere at 100% and still raising temperature past that 25% equilibrium point is very difficult. I do like this mod though. I also have water at 100% and vegetation at 100%.

I'm afraid I can't offer much help with that information. What I suggest you do is delete all terraformation buildings to see if that resolves, one type of building at a time. If deleting one of those works, we will have more information to work with (you can look if any other mod modifies that building, for example).

So i'm having an issue that i can't track down. The game keeps locking up, I can move the camera and whatnot but cant interact with anything and time won't tick. This mod is definitely the cause but idk if it's a conflict or what. It always happens 148 sols in.

A minor issue I've noticed just now, the water vaporator doesn't have that outline when you select it.

ChoGGI actually has something that could help with the annoying notifications: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1812220211
You can disable the annoying notifications with that mod.

Each building applies the % loss individually, so it can go up and down, up and down; and the numbers can be so low that it rounds up to 10% each time in the UI.

I'll see if I can do something with the Carbonate Processors; maybe making them available a little earlier would help.

Also, I've got a similar loop at 10% water. Somehow, there was an unaccounted loss of water which kept draining it down to 10%, despite having 3 lakes. After dropping below 10%, it bounced back, and so on. Only through raising atmosphere, and dropping some more ice asteroids, it then became stable. Could the water loss due to low atmosphere be bigger then shown in the breakdown?

I'm getting this annoying loop as well. The problem is, it usually comes at a bad time. The carbonate processors are still far away on the tech tree, and they're quite expensive as well, so you have to rely on the GHG factories. But since this is also the treshold where GHG efficiency drops by half, you'll need to double their number all of a sudden.

How about separating those two tresholds, maybe by 5%?

The Wizard of Nova Scotia your parameters must be too close together to the trigger for that notification. Try to build more Temperature/Atmosphere generators so the notification goes away. I'm afraid that's the best I can do. I'll add to known issues for future people.

i'm having a bug where the notifaction that tells you rain and toxic rain are now possible, pops up again and again forever

Nope, I had a wildfire event at 1% vegetation, and even a toxic rain did nothing to stop it. Then, there was another one at 5%. I guess it's a bug, then.

Wildfires only start at 20% Vegetation. If that's not the case, then it's bugged.
Any Rain should clear wildfires.

Just a few minor quips I had with the mod's logic:
1. Wouldn't a toxic rain extinguish a wildfire as well?
2. Also, the wildfires should only start after there's enough vegetation around, perhaps at least 20%?

As you've said, I prioritized atmosphere over the rest. However, after hitting the 50% mark, wildfires keep destroying my fledgling 5% vegetation.

We are talking about the same thing when we talk about the equilibrum point. Temperature decay depends on Atmosphere, which Greenhouse Gas missions increases, therefore decreasing Temperature decay, and therefore moving the equilibrium point further and allowing you to have a higher temperature than before. Your problem them is Atmosphere loss, not Temperature loss.

The solution to all problems is to increase Atmosphere; then Temperature and Water loss are no longer problems, which you can do with GHGFactories, Lakes, Carbonate Processors, Magnetic Field Generators or Missions. In fact, high Atmosphere improves Temperature; so Atmosphere should be your focus.

My suggestion is to try and go for the advanced buildings; Carbonate Processors and Magnetic Field Generators; whichever appears first in the tech tree. I understand this is harder with the Zombie Research Mod. But the point was to make it harder to get rid of Cold Waves.

And getting to 25% temp is indeed easy, but after that GHG factories are drastically less efficient, so you either need to spam lakes or really spam GHG factories to compensate for temperature loss. Before this mod, I would usually fly 2-3 import greenhouse missions to quickly get to the critical 30% temperature, but that's not an option anymore, since you need increase per sol to compensate for loss. Hence me wondering what you thought/intended best to breach the 25-30 gap.

Thank you for the quick and detailed response :-) Yeah, I have come to like the "Zombie research" mod since in vanilla S:M, I tend to always tech rush, and skipping over stages (e.g. going straight to farms or even open farms) is far harder with slower research. And a 2x increase in research cost tends to increase sol time at least by factor 3, since the growth is exponential.

A few points to clarify: By "equilibrium point" I mean the point where increase = decrease, so no further increase happens and one-time increase over it will be eaten up by decrease per sol.

I'll see if I can make some of the values more configurable, since you seem to be playing longer games that I normally play.

[3] A handful of Greenhouse Gases buildings can get you to 25% Temperature and Atmosphere very quickly; and it's one of the earlier cheaper buildings. Temp is only supposed to be hard to finish; since it has the most benefits (unlocks new vegetation, stops cold waves, etc). Import Greenhouse also increases Atmosphere which moves your equilibrium point further, so I don't think they're useless. You do have to make sure there's a lot of Atmosphere before you start becoming heavily invested in Temperature/Water; decrease your Atmosphere loss and the one time increases aren't useless anymore.
[4] Late-game projects appear slowly after 5-15 sols. You need to wait between 50 to 150 sols to get all the projects. The carbonate processor/magnetic field generator in particular are needed to stop Temperature/Water loss. Nerfing the magnetic shield would mean waiting 100 to 300 sols instead, and I never play for that long.

[1] isn't something I can reproduce. The condition for triggering Wildfires in the code is Atmosphere > 50, Temperature > 50, and Water < 50. The game engine controls when that happens.
[2] Lakes are really important to the water cycle; you are supposed to spam them. This was by design. The challenge with Huge Lakes is that they take a lot of space and planning to use effectively, specially in high difficulty maps.

[3] 25% temp is a very hard wall now. Reaching 30+% temp before late game was not that easy before, but now it seems almost impossible. This is also partially because despite the buff to greenhouse gases anything that gives a one-time increase has little use, because without increase per sol the value will quickly return to the "equilibrium point". Perhaps import greenhouse and ice asteroids could also give small per-sol-increases? Or temperature loss only begins scaling once you reach 25-50%?

[4] late-game projects seem a bit too strong compared to late-game-buildings. Launch magnetic shield project has roughly the same initial cost (with rocket) as amplified carbonate/magnetic field generator, but zero upkeep. You do get research from magnetic field on the ground, but still, carbonate in particular seems barely worth it like this. Perhaps a slight buff to carbonate to 75% initial value instead of 50%, and/or nerf of magnetic shield project to 0.15 per sol?

So, I tried this and mostly terraformed Mars, and it feels appropriately epic, in particular in combination with slower research. A few notes (part 1)

[1] I encountered a bug in the form of a wildfire at 100% water. I suspect it's because I got to 50% and 50% temp (wildfire start) after reaching 80% water (wildfire stop).
[2] I like that lakes are buffed, but they seem very strong now -- they improve 3 out of 4 parameters and give comfort. Huge lakes were by far my most used terraforming building.

Awesome :3

I wanted to do that before but didn't have time to include it. I will see if I can do it.

I like moving dust storm mitigation from atmosphere to vegetation, it makes a lot of sense re. dust bowls etc. But do you think there's a way you could make dust storms <i>worse</i> with higher atmosphere? :D More often or more damaging because of higher force behind the wind, up to a ceiling lowered by vegetation, maybe.

The game barely touches on the ways it could go really wrong, I would love to see more ways for it to require some thought and planning.

hm, maybe this then https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1381594280
i use this mod to protect my outposts and rovers in the field.

dam, the dust devil are rally annoying.

Concrete is used to cut off the fire so it can't spread and then dies out. You can also put out fires without any Concrete via Rains (Cloud Seeding). They're supposed to punish you from moving too fast on Atmosphere and Temperature. I think it's balanced that way.

I tried to remove Dust Devil's with Vegetation, but couldn't. Sorry.

why is the wildfire cost 200 Concrete and can you make it less?
can you make that water and atmosphere make dust devil less like to happen and eventually become rare?

This is a super fantastic mod. Huge thanks!

This gives the Terraforming DLC a whole new depth.
You have made some nice gameplay mods!

In addition to that; Vegetation produces 2% Water at 100%. You need to build 400 Moisture Vaporators to overcome that. The penalties are only really a problem in the early stages of Terraforming.

The Vaporator using decreasing water sounds scary and almost put me off from downloading this mod, but I've done some math. Hopefully this will help people who are on the fence for the same reason as me. If I undestand it correctly at 100% temperature lakes produce x2.5 as much water than normal. Small lakes would produce .025 water which supports 5 vaporators. Medium is .075 water or 15 vaporators, Large is .125 water or 25 vaporators, and Huge is .25 water or 50 vaporators.