No problem, I'm glad to know if the mod doesnt work. I decided to wait and see if ca fixed it rather than go through all my mod files and rename, thankfully they fixed it quickly

@nopunctuation Sorry I didn't follow up. CA pushed an update a couple of days after the update that broke your mod, and that fixed the issue for 80% of the mods on the workshop. Sorry for forgetting to update you!

The mod is now updated, though from my testing it seemed to work just fine without the update, many mods dont require an update to work with new game updates, this one has needed one only a couple of times since release

Please provide update :(

@nopunctuation This mod is highly likely to be dead right now. CA update is stupid and made any mod that uses uppercase letters in the names of the databases or lua scripts crash on load. Yours has a few, so you may want to do a quiet update.

Update?

Does it works with Radious?

Thanks, I appriciate it!

Yes thank you for the mod. It was very important

Looks like CA may have finally added this to the game natively! Thank you for the years of maintaining this absolutely essential mod
o7

The most important mod for this game. I remember dreaming about this mod in tww2 for so many years. But no one ever made it.

does it still work after the last update (5.2)??

Thank you, thats high praise! A very generous offer

@nopunctuation Thanks mate! It's completely inspired by your mod though, so all credits to you. Tbh, if it wasn't for your mod, I wouldn't even start modding WH3, I know from Empire, it takes a lot of time to do when starting from scratch. You can take from my mod what you need if you make other mods, mods like yours is what makes this game much better, cheers mate!

TraderPisces, your mod looks great, I'm very impressed (and a little jealous ;) )!

Basilisk, this is the closest it is possible to do it with abilities (the only way I know how to do it), it may be confusing but I explained that what you asked is not possible.

Can you upload a version that doesn't change fatigue effects? See your own description:

It also appears that fatigue in vanilla is applied multiplicatively to the unit's current stats, which means it will affect stat bonuses/penalties from spells/unit abilities. This mod uses passive unit abilities to apply the effects, which means they will stack additively with other unit abilities.

I don't want any changes to how fatigue works, all I want is a mod to display the updated stats on fatigue levels. Can you do this?

s there a mod somewhere that show fatigue next to health bar from above, i saw something like in a multiplayer battle on youtube ?

@nopunctuation I've uploaded my mod @ https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3248981123 gave you credits and linked your mod as well. I didn't copy your stuff though, worked from scratch from my previous mod, which works similarly as my new mod, especially since I've already wrote universal functions that are used in both. This solves the issue of having stacked abilities and can be used anywhere (custom battle, quest battles, etc.). Also is much easier to maintain, since there aren't many db tables required to get this to work. Cheers and have a wonderful weekend!

Thanks mate, appreciate it <3 I will be busy myself this weekend. I will make my mod based on my previous mod , which was built from scratch, inc. ~300 lines of code to mimic what you did with all the extra tables to hide the icons on the unit card ui, in order to only have the core tables that are required, which require less maintenance. I noticed that some tables have been changed with patch 5.0. When it's published, I will notify you, have a wonderful weekend!

Hi, thank you for extensive feedback, I probably won't get a chance to make alterations for another couple of weeks, but I appreciate the effort and will make some changes.

If you don't think it can be done/done efficiantly with submodding I don't mind, go ahead

I'm currently working on my todo list for modding WH3, first QoL mods before overhauls. Last modding was ETW over a decade ago on a forgotten account.

Do you mind if I make a similar mod as yours? Fatigue was also on my list. I could make a submod, but would have to data core about half your mod, since there are obsolete tables, table with predefined values, etc. that have to be removed. I.e. I'd literally have to copy-paste your mod, which causes compatibility and maintenance issues if you decide to alter your mod at any time.

It will be based on my other mod, which was built from scratch with a vanilla CA ability as the baseline. Thing is, they both will handle fatigue stat reflections on the unit card, although my mod would have stripped it to bare minimum, removing lots of values in yours and not showing it as active ability with a performance tweak and linking all current land units. I will give you credit for inspiration and ref your mod link, if you're willing to accept that.

2/2
My thesis still stands as it was roughly 20 years ago, accuracy denotes how accurate a shot will land in the CA from the center of aim (which is either closest enemy unit or center of battalion).
I do not know what the formula is (where accuracy, CA and CD fits in) and this is the problem, nobody knows. We only can speculate/theorize.
I’d suggest to also test this out with extreme numbers. One thing I do know and hopefully you too (you can easily verify), which is that you can NOT rely on the shown circle in-game, it does NOT represent the actual values and gives a false sense where your shots will land.

1/2
There are many assertions of how accuracy works, but none of them are correct for at least 20 years (afaik since ETW), nobody knows the formula, but CA. I did some more testing regarding accuracy and calibration distance (CD) and area (CA). You'll be shocked.

First of all, CA is visually shown as a [2D] circle, when in fact it works as a [3D] sphere. Secondly, the shown circle is the SAME size for 50, as it is for 600. It's absolutely deceptive and only shrinks with high accuracy, when it still can shoot 100x the size outside of the circle.

This becomes apparent when you test with high values and actually observe what's going on, whether it's with artillery or archers, shots can overshoot > 45* when they’re at point blank range, both for 0 accuracy as 100, despite the tiny shown circle for the latter.

CD of 300 or 0, doesn't make much of a difference with CA being set at 600, nor is 300 accuracy.

@Babarigo It's not the mod's fault, anybody, inc. me, would assume it would work, but good that you've pointed this out, it indeed does not work and changes are not reflected back on the unit card, nor in battle, as my testing have confirmed.

There are quite some other values that are never picked up by the engine, e.g. this same stat key (stat_reloading) works in db/unit_experience_bonuses_tables, but it does not work here. Additional stat keys in latter table are never picked up. Same goes for universal scalers, stat_resistance_all for instance does not work, but works for abilities, like in this mod.

Imho, there should be proper documentation what is picked up by the engine and what not, but this can only come from CA. Same for lua scripting, a lot of functions are not even documented, so it's hard to make proper mods, not because it's complex, but you're in the dark and demystifying takes a lot of time.

1/2
I took empire archer, base 10 reload. Added 20 @ winded = 8s reload. Added 20 @ tired = 6s. Multiplied by 4 @ very tired = STILL 6s. Added +20 @ exhausted = 4s.

Next test was with handgunner with 9s base. +20 @ winded = 7.2s, +20 @ tired = 5.4s, -40 @ very tired = 9s and -40 @ exhausted = STILL 9s.

I'd suggest to replace stat_reloading with stat_accuracy, maybe even modifying the calibration area, because afaik, the accuracy means the chance to hit within that area, this would also make it more realistic vs sniper archers.

I'd also suggest to remove leadership debuffs from your mod, because they're already defined in db/_kv_morale_tables for tired, very tired and exhausted. They show up properly in tooltip for leadership, but not for this mod (it shows debuff from ability, which can be anything). But main problem is, it's redundant and _kv_ rules should override other tables per consensus.

I hope my comments are of value, have a nice weekend!

2/2
Ok, I had some time to do some testing in-game, here are my findings to answer myself:
- Being attacked in forced march stance initially has fatigue on fresh, then after some ticks occur, it goes to very tired state, thereby applying the debuffs correctly;
- Undead factions, such as vampire count, will show different naming for the same fatigue level and work correctly.

I can confirm what @Babarigo encountered and did more testing. Type mult does NOT work, it needs to be add. Negative values will NOT go below baseline, only positive add work reliable, see next comment how the test was performed.

Also, I've noticed in your mod rows 2151-2153 should be "puncT_fatigue_5_exhausted", but they're "puncT_fatigue_1_active" for db/land_units_to_unit_abilites_junctions_tables/puncFat_custom_battle_5_e (the other four fatigue states are fine, but all of them miss the 38 different units, such as wh2_dlc10_dwf_inf_giant_slayers, etc. (which can be quickly found out by filtering in excel using MATCH function and then filter on N/A)).

Essential mod, reflecting fatigue effects (debuffs) in unit card should have been in the base game for a long time, imho. Clever way of doing it via abilities, so effects can be color highlighted (buff = positive = green; debuff = negative = red) with updated stat effects in unit card.

I've quickly checked your mod and there are 38 missing land units in land_units_to_unit_abilites_junctions_tables, as of today, there are 2191 land units defined in land_units_tables. Do you want to update those?

I'm lacking time atm, so I wonder if this will work as intended for factions such as vampire count and what happens when army is attacked in forced march stand (i.e. fatigue is very tired initially).

I'm asking a question because I'm having an issue, I don't think your mod is the reason but rather the game itself. Despite being exhausted, ranged units don't have their reload skill decreased leading to lowered range damage.
I've tried exhausting one ranged unit in custom battle and start shooting at a target at the same time than a fresh one, and indeed there was no difference in the fire rate.
I made the same test without the mod and I obtained the same result, fatigue isn't affecting reload skill.
I don't know if my game is somehow bugged so I'd like to know if someone else is having the same experience on this.

From my testing it appeared to work fine without the update, however it has now been updated

I think it needs an update please...thank you

no work

Is this still working?

Hey, is this mod require an update for 4.2?

Thanks! It works fine for me, don't think it needs an update, most game updates wont need mods to update to work

This mod should be made baseline by CA, please update

I made a mod Armour Does Not Fatigue compatible with this one. I didn't realize how much work you put into this until I opened the pack file. Well done.

@rockyalthor - yes it is!

hello,it's compatible with Stat Icons justified to the right ?

this mod should be heavily recommended. even I dont know whether uploader intented or not, this mod actually show ALL ai's hidden stat. of course, even when ai battle stat difficulty modified.

Thank you Neil for explaining it, spot on

@gingusa, it does a LITTLE, but clashes feel the same to me with the mod compared to without, and ther'es no feasible way to do what this mod does in any other way with the mod tools available. It's a workaround sure, but a very good one. Author expanded a little on the maths for me, that the differences get more pronounced on very large numbers:
UNIT ABILITIES or SPELLS (things that change the stats mid battle) with higher numbers are more impactful, not the units themselves.

EG:
Base: Spell: Fatigue:
mod: 50 armour + 10% armour - 30% armour --> 50 - 20% -------> 40
vanilla: (50 armour + 10% armour) - 30% armour -> (50 + 5) * 0.7 --> 38 ->Differance: 2

Base: Spell: Fatigue:
mod: 50 armour + 50% armour - 30% armour --> 50 + 20% -------> 60
vanilla: (50 armour + 50% armour) - 30% armour -> (50 + 25) * 0.7 --> 52 ->Differance: 8

Thee results are almost the same as vanilla with lower values, but with higher values the mod's results are more different from vanilla.

you said you changed stats from multi to additive, does that affect the balance of the game? oi just wanted to see fatigue affects not change balance

update please :)

This mod adds unit abilities (little icons on the unit cards are unit abilities or attributes), removing a mod that added a unit ability is not savegame compatible.

This mod does not change how units become exhausted in any way, only what effects being exhausted have, so it must be some other reason/mod.

I made a submod for sfo (though it may be broken at the moment, I will hopefully fix it soon), I won't be making submods for any other overhauls. I welcome anyone to make a submod for any other mod, I'll link it here if you make one.
If you base it on the sfo submod, it should be easy to make (just match the special_ability_phase_stat_effects_tables values to those in unit_fatigue_effects_tables).

If you use this mod with a mod which edits the effects fatigue give, most likley fatigue effects will be applied twice (by this mod and the other one). If the other mod just changes how fatigue is gained/lost that will work perfectly with this.

I suspect making a sub-mod for SW-ORD Fatigue is not an option?

Why turning off this mod makes my savegame crash?

I am suspecting that this mod causes my games to have all units have "Exhaused" all the time. I am also using a SW-ORD Fatigue which makes the values different, but I don;t know how it can make all the units be always tired.

oh, i only test in custom battle. i have not watched in campaign

Did you try it in campaign? The mod works for all units (vanilla and modded) in campaign, but units that have it in custom battle have not been updated

i have not tested other unit of chao's dwarf.

you can test like this:
Infernal Ironsworn vs whip chosen (open mod)
Infernal Ironsworn vs whip chosen (close mod)