@RustyDios

(continued)

I'm still confused about why only Medispray has this issue but not any of the other chemthrower abilities. In particular these lines in the log:

Adding overriden Ability MedikitHeal for override MZMedispray
Adding overriden Ability NanoMedikitHeal for override MZMedispray
Adding overriden Ability GremlinHeal for override MZMedispray
No config for MZMedispray found. Using config for override ability GremlinHeal instead
Removing MZMedispray cause no matching items found

seems to indicate that GremlinHeal is being used as a substitute for MZMedispray for some reason and a config like:

+AbilityWeaponCategories=(AbilityName=GremlinHeal, WeaponCategorySetName=X)

might also fix the issue (where "X" is a set consisting of both gremlinlike items along with chemthrowers).

Not sure why GremlinHeal is being used a substitute, but maybe I shouldn't worry about it too much since at least directly assigning MZMedispray to Chemthrowers works fine.

@RustyDios

Yeah I realized I couldn't remove ATSR because I play with True Primary Secondaries so I added:

+AbilityWeaponCategories=(AbilityName=MZMedispray, WeaponCategorySetName=Chemthrowers)

and that ended up working.

But yeah, likely an AtSR issue. It can be a bit over-zealous in some instances as rather than "leave for vanilla-code to figure out" when it can't match a perk<>weapon, AtSR removes the perk entirely

you can also ADD the following to ATSR configs;

---
[AbilityToSlotReassignment.AbilityToSlotReassignmentLib]
+WeaponCategorySets=(WeaponCategorySetName=Chemthrowers, WeaponCategories=(chemthrower))

+AbilityWeaponCategories=(AbilityName=MZMedispray, WeaponCategorySetName=Chemthrowers)
---

which might fix the issue

@MrCloista

I'm already running Musashi's Mods Fixes (with default config). I have fiddled with ATSR config at some point although nothing related to chemthrowers that I can remember. I'll try reverting to default config on ATSR or removing ATSR altogether and see if they solves the issue without breaking anything else.

ATSR is known for causing issues like this if you are not running Musashi Mod Fixes by Iridar. Try either adding that mod or removing AtSR @ZJwh5S

@RustyDios

I don't know if this info will help. But it seems to be related to AbilityToSlotReassignment mod and looking for a config specifically for reassigning the GremlinHeal ability(?) for some reason.

I'm happy to answer questions if you want to investigate further. Thanks.

[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Override Ability RDChemthrower_ArcCutter_F
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: GetInventoryItemsForCategory MZBlastCanister X2WeaponTemplate canister canister
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Patching MZRovingChemistTrigger to eInvSlot_SecondaryWeapon [MZBlastCanister, None, 452853]
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] No config for MZMedispray found. Using config for override ability GremlinHeal instead
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Removing MZMedispray cause no matching items found

Override Ability WOTC_APA_ZombieClawSlash
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Override Ability WOTC_APA_ArcWaveRend
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Override Ability IRI_TemplarShield
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Override Ability SprayMrC
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Override Ability RDChemthrower_DirectJet_F
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Override Ability RDChemthrower_LargeWall_F

[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Override Ability MZMedispray
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] -> Override Ability MZMedispray found on soldier
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] ->Adding overriden Ability MedikitHeal for override MZMedispray
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] ->Adding overriden Ability NanoMedikitHeal for override MZMedispray
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] ->Adding overriden Ability GremlinHeal for override MZMedispray
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167] Override Ability BladestormAttackPrimary
[10678.06] AbilityToSlotReassignment: FinalizeUnitAbilitiesForInit [Krishna, None, 9167]

@RustyDios

Hi. I had a problem with Medispray not being available as an action in the tactical layer even though the soldier had the ability listed in the barracks. This is not a problem with other abilities like Fumigate, Pressure Spray. So I checked this mod's comment section to see if the problem might be this mod and if someone has reported it. And I see @Janet had reported this July 25, 2024 and you responded to them saying you were not able to reproduce the issue.

I checked my launch.log to see if I can find something useful and this is what I found:

(Continued)

Now my highest ranked FA is a Major. At Captain, Support Grenadier + Concussion Grenades seems really good combo of action economy + effectiveness if there's AP to spare, but having just one of them is already good too. Also I took the blind ability at Major. The class does seem to get a little better at higher ranks, partially due to Superior chemthrower abilities and getting mobility on the soldiers (from PCS, Soldier Development mod, and/or Cover Op boosts) so they can more easily get in range on a blue move.

(Continued)

I did note in a previous comment that melee attack. The Arc Cutter ability? I do agree it's quite good. I also managed to find a Superior Xenolator, which has the Directed Jet ability (like a wider Plasma Blaster). Both these abilities are cooldown-based as opposed to ammo-based, which is great.

Yeah I think my frustration is mostly with not being able to do much with the class early game since XCOM 2 difficulty tends to be more frontloaded and since I'm used to PCP classes intentionally designed with their power more frontloaded in early perks. With my modlist, the game is difficult from early to lategame, but I'd say usually the hardest part is still getting a really nice early start.

@Tacocat

Thanks for the writeup. Even if I haven't had a good first impression of the class, I'm still in the middle of my current campaign and even if I wanted to, it wouldn't be a good idea to disable the mod mid-campaign. So I'll be using the class until at least the end of the campaign.

I would highly recommend to give it another try. Took me a little bit to learn the class, but when I did I can't put it down.

<<continued>>

As for the Fumigate & Medispray, I typically take these hoping I never have to use them. However, on more than one occasion I have saved soldier's lives because of those abilities. Some of the tougher mods remove gremlin heals entirely, so this class having a short ranged heal comes in clutch sometimes.

Early on, I can see how you might feel that this class is lacking, because it isn't as front loaded as a sniper or assault type class. However, once they begin stacking some of those abilities they can wipe entire pods alone.I feel that it's power scaling is probably more in line with a drone class or maybe a machine gunner that typically have their big power spikes later in the ranks once things can combine properly. Plus, this class is like the Swiss army knife of classes. Can be tanky, can heal, can deal with various enemy types, strong debuffs. Heck, some of the throwers even have a melee attack that can shut down robotic units and wreck their armor in the process!

Weapon mods definitely are not needed to make this class good. I would recommend checking into some of the alternative damage types available as canisters, as well as build some alternative elemental throwers. I think you'll find that this class can really accomplish a lot.

Fire damage for Lost. Poison for Advent & most aliens. Explosive for multiple purposes. Electricity for robots. Smoke for cover. Medical for added support if you're missing a healer or want some back up. Acid for armored units. There are even some additional modders that have added things like cold that stacks cold debuffs and can even freeze enemies solid. I am sure I am missing something because this class has so much.

<<more>>

@Tacocat

(Continued)

Yes of course, to each his own. I don't like the class and of course I can simply not play it. But I also want to like the class because it's the only class I've tried that makes use of chemthrowers and also believe I have the freedom to request that the author to buff it. Whether he wants to or not is up to him. I'm sure it's a popular class and maybe I'm ruffling some feathers with my unpopular opinion, but that's just how things go sometimes :)

@Tacocat

(Continued)

In general, having a low range weapon is extremely limiting and the FA doesn't provide much utility outside of that. The only PCP class that I've played with that have the same range or lower than FA are Templars, but Templars are good because they can do stuff like Volt, Reanimate, Exchange, etc. when they can't safely get into melee range.

I haven't really gotten many weapon mods dropped for chemthrowers and I've well past midway through my current campaign. I remembering a Clip Size and like 3 other mods, but I don't remember getting one with increased range. Even if an increased range mod exists, I don't think relying on mods to be good is a good thing.

@Tacocat

I think I already addressed this. On paper abilities like Fumigate and Medispray sound good. But in practice rarely will you have a situation where you have multiple soldiers taking hits from elemental or acid damage or have taken damage and also have everyone positioned in a way where they can all be in cover while the FA Fumigates or Medisprays them and all of them not being in danger of getting aoe'd the next turn. I've only used Fumigate once personally and it was due to me not realizing an Andromedon can still Acid Bomb when disoriented. So I got 3 soldiers Acid Bombed and used Fumigate. But I don't think the player should be speccing a soldier/planning for disasters like that.

Same thing for Medispray. It looks like there is a niche because there is potential for multiple heals in one action which the Field Medic can't do, but in practice this situation won't really happen unless it's out-of-combat.

@Tacocat

Wow, I have always felt that the FA is a rather strong class compared to so many others. The utility they bring to the field is unrivaled by any other class.

Fumigate on higher difficulties with the various added enemies is so useful because of all the elemental damage types they bring to the field. Medispray turns an otherwise very offensive class into a very capable healer as well.

Sure, they do have to be close, but with modifications on your weapon it can help with some of this. Additionally, they can hit entire groups of enemies where most other classes can't easily do this without either a long cooldown or a limited resource.

To each their own though. If you don't like the class you don't have to play with it. That said, I know this class is typically very popular in the community.

(Continued)

FA does technically have access to Burning Rush, but it's not guaranteed/it's a random roll perk so I don't really take that into account when giving feedback regarding a class. In contrast, Run and Gun is a baseline ability for Assault. And Adrenaline Rush can be taken at Corporal for Field Medic. Field Support Officer also gets Adrenaline Rush I believe (dont' remember which rank and I'm not in-game right now to check, but I believe my FSO's have it).

I guess the question is why get to 3-4 tiles when you can shoot enemies with a different class from further range and from a safer distance/safer cover. I get that the chemthrower is aoe, but it's not often where you'll have enemies grouped up all nicely for the aoe + you have a good spot of cover to shoot them from + you don't miss.

I will say it's definitely fun though to overwatch with chemthrowers on Advent drop pods :)

@MrCloista

I don't really have any problems with the Lost, and I play with Limited Reload + Reload Ends Turn mods. So I don't see why someone who plays with vanilla reloads would have trouble just gunning them down normally.

For Chryssalids, the problem is not so much killing them once they are already close. The problem is preventing them from dashing to your position in the first place, which I don't believe is a problem that the Field Alchemist solves.

Thanks for the explanation regarding Quickburn. Can Quickburn not be attached to other weapon types?

The Field Alchemist is designed to be a very niche class due to the chemthrower, in it's niche it is VERY powerful. Anything weak to one of the chemthrower elements, especially fire, and also anything that tends towards swarming (like lost/chryssalids) are it's intended target. It also has the ability to be a very good support unit. As for why it lacks Quickburn - that perk is for the lw2 gauntlet which this class doesn't have. Also FA does have Burning Rush which is an arguably more powerful Run N Gun.

A lot of people struggle to use chemthrowers effectively because of how they aim, but if you can get used to them (ideal range is 3-4 tiles) they can be very powerful.

(Continued)

I think the only two niches I think I've found use for this class is the Arc Cutter ability (with RustyDios' Chemthrower Addon Redux mod) and the Chemical Deflector perk (to bait Incendiary Grenades).

I really want to like this class because it does fill the niche of a chemthrower-using class and I hope you consider buffing it.

(Continued)

I've tried all 3 trees up until Captain rank.

For the Utility tree, I think Fumigate, Medispray, and Incandescence are all pretty weak/niche abilities. Fumigate only works if you got hit by environmental effects. Medispray is potentially an AOE heal, but requires too much positioning to make it AOE, so it's not great during combat. And for out-of-combat heals, Field Medic suffices. Incandescence is basically "more damage for the squad" but with the condition of the Alchemist hitting first, and negated by the overall lower-than average damage output of the class.

The Control and Damage tree simply suffer from the base problem of the class being close-range and having weird targeting.

Maybe from Captain through Colonel rank the class gets better (I'm not sure, because the furthest one has lived for me is Captain), but I think this class has the worst early and midgame of any PCP class I've tried so far.

(Continued)

I think this problem is amplified by the class not really having good action economy. Rangers/PCP Assault also are close-range classes, but they get Run and Gun and Implacable/Breaching Maneuver. Field Alchemist can't dash and then fire, or move -> shoot -> move (except with the Blast Canister ability, but you only get 2 uses per mission). If we compare with the Combat Engineer, the Combat Engineer has Quickburn while the Field Alchemist (the class specializing in chemthrowers) weirdly does not.

@MrCloista

I've been playing with base PCP and only recently tried a few new classes (Field Alchemist, Combat Engineer, Field Support, and Phalanx).

My impression of this class so far is that it is very underpowered when compared to all other PCP classes that I've tried (which is weird because I see someone else commented that this class is OP!). Extra ablative HP, +2 Mobility from canister, chance to deflect from Thermal Bulwark, Evasive, and baseline Low Profile seems like a lot of survivability, but imo it does not compensate for the fact that the class needs to get close to deal damage. Not only does it need to get close, but due to the weird targeting of chemthrowers, it's difficult to predict who you can actually even target once you get close (oftentimes taking a spot behind cover means you can't even target any enemies). And then of course even if you can target them, the chemthrower can still miss.

Ahhh ok. Thank you!

2nd. The Immolator mod has perks but doesn't actually provide a class in and of itself, you need either Rusty's Alchemist (the original mod that inspired this proficiency class version), this, or one of the other chemthrower enabled class Mods.

So I’m a tad confused. Is this class a replacement for Immolator, or is it its own class that just requires that mod for the chemthrower weapon? If it’s the second option, what are some differences between the 2 classes? Thank you.

I see. I just thought of a way to balance it though: I'll simply reduce the HP gained by leveling up; I think it's 8 total? so maybe reducing it to 4 will better fit my campaign. Thanks man!

@AVIS the max 2 is for getting the 'rescue resistance leader' to give you a field alchemist. You can get as many as you want via normal promotions/rewards

@Penril shields are hard coded into a perk and can't be changed.

I want to love this class but I find the mobility and ablative shields way too OP. I can easily fix the mobility by editing Xcomclassdata.ini, but I can't find a way to remove or modify the shields. Please help!

The mod stated that I can only get a maximum of 2 field alchemist in my barracks. But there seems to be a problem with the "Choose my class" mod, since even when I already have 2 field alchemist in my barracks I still get the choice to promote my rookies to field alchemist exceeding the maximum limit of 2.

Not that I am complaining, since its fun to have 6 field alchemist running around burning everything.

Some people have mentioned this bug before, but I'm unable to replicate it :( It's clearly a mod<>mod conflict somewhere.

Hello the "Medispray" abilities specifically does not work for me, 2 of my alchemists have it unlocked and even with a mekdkit or medicine canister, the abilities just doesnt appear in combat, it's not on my abilities list bottom left or with f1 everything mod and just doesnt exist outside the promotion screen, the others abitities such as fumigate or wide burst work fine.
Only Medispray doesnt want to work is this a known issue? My only others classes it could conflict with is Pharmacist potentially?
If anyone know how i could fix it, i really wanted to make a supportive FA

This is a fun class! I thought I would mainly use it for Lost missions, but it's also fun in other situations, like when you can overwatch on incoming reinforcements.

@MrCloista Ahhh thought as much, I guess it *is* called Field *Alchemist* for a reason haha. All good, cheers for the swift response!

@kawapatch yes otherwise the alternative damage type perks you can roll become useless.

Hey I wanted to ask if [WOTC] Chemthrower Addons is a hard required mod or not?

Author MrCloista: Thank you very much for answering my question concerning this soldier.

@Laserbelly doesn't require CI but it has a reduced frequency of promotion normally and can't betrained in the GTS. If you go into the mod's xcomclassdata and increase NumInDeck to 4 and NumInForcedDeck to 1, it'll be more common and trainable.

Is this soldier dependent upon CI to show up ? On my last run through I had CI active. I had 3 FA’s on my roster. On my current playthrough I am not using CI and they’re not showing up 🤔

oh sorry. I saw it in the description. I tell everyone - read the description CAREFULLY

Chemical Bastion IS Chemical Detector Squad's localised name.

It's all great, but why you don't use "Chemical Deflector squad"? You can put it in 3 level proficiency.

So the Chemthrower itself uses a 'normal' hit calculation on the units caught inside it's AoE attack (unlike other AoE's that just auto-hit) ... so a high aim soldier will equal more people actually getting hit, which in turn will be more getting burned...

so.. Yes

Is the soldier aim increase the chance of enemy got burn???

Sorry for the dumb question really wanna make sure do i need a high aim soldier or low aim soldier for this class. I'm using PBNCE, Soldier Development, and Soldier conditioning.