👀 gotta finish up my current game but I'm very interested in checking that out

Hey all. I’m pleased to announce the release of the Ultra Historical Politics Mod! It contains all the features of this mod plus much more. Please subscribe!

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2918521358

I uploaded the AI buff @hadley. I think you'll like the new mod, which should be coming out in the next few days!

Yeah that makes sense, classic paradox AI. I'm excited to see what you have in store for your other mod though!

I know what you mean @hadley. The problem is the AI isn't very good. Whereas even a new player will recognize that to avoid a revolution, you pass the law that the revolutionary movement wants, the AI isn't very good at it. So to make the AI stable, you end up making it too easy for the player. Fortunately, I'm working on another mod that has a lot of these changes, and one of the things I'm working on there is making politics a bit more stable for AI countries. If that ends up working, I'll import the changes here.

Overall I love this mod, I always thought angry IGs were way too easy to deal with and this helps a lot with that. However I think they might be a little too aggressive now, at least for the AI. For example the US basically always has a successful abolitionist revolt within a few years after the start of the game. I'm not saying it should never happen, just that it happening so often and so quickly seems weird and unintended. Lots of other AI nations have frequent revolts too. Granted I'm also using a bunch of other mods including your other Historical IGs mod, so this might just be a weird interaction or something, not really sure.

Good news all, with the latest patch Angry interest groups can now join the government and even launch political movements from office. This means I can safely raise the disapproval cap from status quo laws from -10 to -15. This should make it to where you can more easily please angry interest groups, and also make it easier for them to start revolutions. Before they would start the countdown but they would almost never actually revolt. Hopefully with the changes they’ll be more of a check on your power, forcing you to be strategic.

Glad it helped!

Not sure how or why, but this mod seems to solve the ideological incompatibility update fail! When I put in the intelligentsia with the landowners, for example, my legitimacy tanks! Awesome!

Good points on raising the cap as well. I agree it wouldn't be too bad of a change if laws took longer. I just wish there was a way for a party/ig to help move a law along even if they're not in government, without needing a movement. A kind of half measure.

I appreciate the observer games, and glad to see it made your end game a bit spicy! And thanks for the thanks, I am always happy to make the game open to a different experience.

@Stubb

Whoops on the laissez faire part, thanks for the catch.

As for the proleterian ideology opposing proportional taxation, I made them oppose it since proportional taxation in my view is like a flat tax, which of course socialists don't like because the rich have the same percentage tax as the poor. The fact they disapprove of it though, with the other non-graduated laws being strongly disapprove, makes it to where the trade union will still be decently happier and support a move to proportional taxes from worse ones. It just seemed like socialists should have an all or nothing approach to it. But if that plays out weirdly in game I think I'd be okay with changing it to neutral.

I look forward to hearing back on the consumption tax stuff. It is already pretty bad for a player and like you said isn't inherently bad for workers.

Sorry for spamming your wall. A couple more notes:
- I think your description of the laissez-faire changes may be incorrect (I believe you changed from endorse to neutral, not from neutral to oppose)
- Did you mean to make proletarian oppose proportional taxation? I don't recall it being this way, and it strikes me as counter-intuitive. I would have assumed endorse or neutral was their default position? Why oppose here?

Eh, let me get back to you also on those historical points in the prior post. I'm not a tax historian and am using rough memory here. I should re-confirm my understanding before suggesting it.

I'll run a couple observer games over the next week and get back to you with what I'm seeing. One purely conceptual point I have at this point regards consumption taxation: I think it's already bad in the game compared to the income tax laws, whereas it was in history fairly prevalent before the 20th century (I believe Britain and France, but not most others, had moved to income-type taxation before game start). Government funding was achieved largely through tariffs and industry-specific consumption taxes (e.g., on railroads). I get why the proletarian ideology might hate consumption taxes, for instance if you're taxing necessities like grain and clothes, but players will get punished for this anyways through other mechanics. It's also possible to arrange a consumption tax regime on goods not really used by the lower strata (although I expect most players tax services). It might be worth considering making the opposition to consumption taxes a little lower.

As always, thank you!

I'm glad you went with some ideas and not others per your judgment. I was hoping you'd modify, mix and match as you thought appropriate. Regarding your point on the cap, I see the dilemma, but I wonder if it just forces the player to be more thoughtful and strategic about passing laws in certain orders and even making compromises to keep IGs from getting angry, if the player expects to later need that IG's support for another law. Also, it seems to me that most laws have at least two sources of potential endorsement (especially given dynamic IG leader traits), so it seems possible to still make changes even if the primary IG supporting that law is angry. The process will just be slower, and may also require multiple attempts, which is also fine (and in my eyes an improvement).

@Caesar15 -- The changes hit my end-game without my noticing there had been an update. I was playing a very imperial Germany in the 1920s that had recently taken, well, let's say a "rightward lurch" in laws, as I very much needed more authority to run resource industry decrees. The trade unions and intelligentsia were not very happy and were threatening revolution, but the other IGs were all some form of conservative statist (including fascist), so I easily reverted to oligarchy to reduce TU & INT clout. Now they had about half as much clout but were very unhappy, and several movements spawned to re-implement liberal reforms. I spent the end game (per the mod update) with several restore reform political movements at about 70-75 radicalism, and France finally got around to its a republican revolution in the 1920s. All improvements and truer to life, if you ask me!

The names are the same now, so there shouldn't be a problem there. I just had the issue pop up, and when I looked at a new save game text v.s the old one, it said I wasn't running any mods (even though I was). So I deleted the mod from my playset, unsubscribed, resubscribed, then added it back again. It then decided to recognize the mod.

Hopefully you're having the same issue. if so, then just deleting the mod from your playset and unsubscribing, then resubscribing, should fix it. The names of the mods in the metadata file are the same, so it's good on the mod end, the question is if steam/paradox launcher are behaving correctly or not.

same problem, sorry to say always the status is missing mod.
i hope that you can solve the problem :)

Yeah for some reason when I uploaded it it decided to publish a whole new mod instead of just updating this one. Name change fixed that, but then it broke the saves. Now when I changed the name back it started working again. Honestly no idea how that happened in the first place but, hey, as long as it works now.

OOOF

yeah, when i saw the name of this changed i knew trouble's afoot

It's not really your fault caesar, paradox decided to be very anal with mods this time around

Whoops, sorry about that. I had a problem with uploading it so I changed the name, but that breaks saves apparently. I reverted the name just now. Does it work?

after your last upgrade the game gives me missing mods, can't load anymore, could you check it please

Also @Stubb, another thing I was considering was to increase the cap at how angry an IG can get from status quo laws. Right now it's -10, which means if they're not mad for other reasons you can get them into the government in order to enact the changes they want. On the flip side, this could make them pushovers, since they'd have to go from -10 to -20 (or close to it) to start a real revolution. The problem with making the cap, say, -15, though is that that means you can't put them in government, so how can you pass the laws they want? The only option would be to wait for a political movement, which could be annoying from a player perspective. But if you think they could use an extra oomf than I can try testing it out.

Glad you like it @IronSlug!

I incorporated most of your suggestions @Stubb. From an observer game I found trade unions pretty pissed off, both in the start of the game and even in the mid to late game, if countries haven't passed enough reforms. This should have the effect of making them a challenge. I hesitated to incorporate some of your changes for the intellectuals though, only because I view them as imperfect liberals. Wanting expanded suffrage but being happy when they can vote (census suffrage) instead of wanting universal or nothing. Rather, I think it would be better for trade unions to be the one pushing for universal suffrage, since their base isn't educated enough to qualify for census suffrage. Though this might make the intellectuals too easy to deal with, so let me know if that's the case.

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

Alas, I don't have too much experience with event modding.

All very good suggestions @Stubb. I'll look into them when I have a little more time/start playing the game again.

As for war impacting IG approval, I'm not sure. It might be possible through events and the like, in a round about way.

Another thought for you: I have no idea how to model this, but a lot of social change was related to war results. The Franco-Prussian war resulted in the extremely revolutionary commune movements in Paris and elsewhere in France and the creation of the Third Republic. Is there a way to increase the impact of war on IG approval?

Also I think there's room for some potential changes for your historical IG mod, like a communard trait for French trade unions and maybe a multicultural federalization trait for Austrian intelligentsia.

Increasing it back to +/-6 could just make IG approval/disapproval more static. It could have more impact to tweak some of the IG traits regarding laws, as you suggest, which I think could be done in a way that would be both more appropriate/realistic to the trait and create more net more disapproval for the relevant IGs. Here are some potential changes:

- Proletarian (Trade Unions) - change to strongly oppose per-capita taxation (currently oppose), strongly endorse graduated taxation (currently endorse)

- Laissez-Faire (Industrialists) - change to neutral to interventionism (currently endorse)

- Liberal (Intelligentsia) - change to strongly oppose outlawed dissent (currently oppose), oppose censorship (currently neutral)

- Republican (Intelligentsia) - change to oppose landed voting (currently neutral), neutral to wealth voting (currently endorse), endorse census voting (currently strongly endorse)

@Stubb No revolutions at all does seem strange. Perhaps the strong disapproval should be changed back to -6. I think the big issue is IG's are only a threat when they're angry, which is at -10. It's pretty easy to remain above this, as you note. Even for more radical IG's like the trade unions, all you need are a few laws they like and all of a sudden they're manageable. Another problem is that the modifiers for how much IG's approve/disapprove of things are tied together. So in order to make strongly disapprove -6, you have to make strongly approve +6. So if each IG has at least one law they strongly approve of, it's a lot easier to deal with them.

I could try reducing the amount of laws IG's "strongly approve" of, which might make them angry at times. What do you think?

Also, what makes the trade unions so happy in your game? They of all people should be pissed off about your laws.

Now, that all said, I did have a census suffrage movement in the 1890s that was fun and spawned a lot of radicals (with IGs still happy, other than Trade Unions dipping into negative for a bit), and made me take the opportunity of Wilhelm I's death and the succession of an intelligentsia IG kaiser (Wilhelm II died somehow?) to enact the reform. Nice flavor there for sure. As always, thank you.

@Caesar15 -- I've been playing a Prussia run with this (and other mods -- IG attraction, your historical IG and Ferrous' party mods impacting IGs/parties) and wonder if the tweaks might have been over-corrective. I'm at about 1900, and there have been no revolutions in Europe, there's only autocracy or wealth voting in Europe, and most importantly it's been effortless to keep all of the IGs happy. This is from only one played game, so take it for what it's worth, but see some pics below showing IG approval (normal wages) and current set of laws (only moderate reforms):

- https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1875214194415899009/1D3D79C14AAE41DEF2081184EB686264F4672B4C/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false
- https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1875214194415899291/860156EDDA33F647B06577F81455DE24E1731B7F/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

@Stubb Awesome

@Exodus Take your time lol, no rush

Dang, i'm in the middle of a game. I'll try it in a day or two.

Thank you Caesar15! I'll give it a run later today.

@Stubb @Exodus

Just pushed a new update. It should be a little easier for the AI now.

Yeah @Stubb, the last game update really upped political movements, and it's honestly a bit too much in the other direction for the AI. It's certainly a fun challenge for the player IMO, as you say, but seeing the world on fire is a bit much. I'll update it to nerf some of the values in a little bit.

I want to use this so bad, but the AI is not able to play properly with these changes.

I've run a few observer games, and this mod (with the Better IG Attraction, your Historically Accurate IG and Anbeeld's AI mods) seems like a great challenge for the player but maybe beyond what the AI is capable of handling. Maybe this is as intended, as the world around 1848 is certainly livelier and more chaotic with revolutions with this mod, but the number of radicals seems a little extreme for the AI. Maybe the impact of this is exacerbated by the extra industrialization from the AI mod and the extra attraction to Trade Unions from the Better IG Attraction mods. Would you consider a lighter version of this with, for example, strongly approve/disapprove reduced to 4/-4 and law enactment chance reduced to 35%? Thank you again!

My pleasure @fangmuan

It should be @Eliihjahh, I play with it myself and haven't noticed any problems.

Is this compatible with the Better Interest Groups Attraction mod?

Thanks