after playing the character again i think the rebalanced version is just too weak early on. More expensive tithe and exhausting church coffers means you will just die at the first elite repeatedly because Hierophant has so many cards that are weak on their own. Just now i had a run with invocation on floor 1. Then i had the choice between 3 unplayable uncommons (an eye for coin, -3 str and something else i forgot). By floor 6 i only picked up 1 card that made me stronger early on and had lost 90 gold to tithe. Then i died to lagavulin. If tithe were at the original cost i would have started the lagavulin fight with 20 or more additional hp and probably still lost, now it wasn't even a challenge.

Going back to the original mod for now :(

They were Overpowered? :sob:
I can't even beat A1 with them :(

I would love to, but sadly my knowledge of Java is super basic and rudimentary, and I basically stumbled on how to mod this. Making it compatable with multiplayer is something that is just far beyond my skill at the moment.

This is really cool, I wish it worked with Together In Spire properly. If you ever feel like patching it more that'd be a great thing to see.

I dont normaly add class mods. For som reason I felt the urge to play it !
thankyou

Should be updated now.

As soon as you've uploaded the new version I'll give it a test and let you know :)

Powers are so damn confusing.

After wrangling with some parentheses and headsplitting recursion, it should be fixed.

Uh oh. I may have programmed that wrong. I'll take a look and upload a fix.

I really like this mod!

However, Auric Form seems to be bugged for me. It is turning 5/8% gold into Fervor each turn but no Piety.

I appreciate the kind words! I still intend to keep updating this at some point, I just need to figure out a way to join more of the character's cards together without enabling insane combos.

This is a really fun, conceptually creative character, and I played this rebalanced version without playing the base character. I found the character fine in terms of balance. There are very broken archetypes but in a way that you have to build very consciously towards. Another commenter criticizes the lack of synergy between different sub-archetypes but I think that actually serves to balance the character; each archetype is so strong that the character would be runaway broken if more microsynergies existed between its mutually exclusive archetypes.

Are you on the StS discord? Shoot me a message over there if you want to chat more about this :)

Oh that's great to hear, Corax! I'd love to work with you on things to change, and you're right, Church Coffers was definitely a large culprit. I've been tinkering with several ways to change it, and that idea is a cool one. Personally I might experiment with configuration settings that let you choose your nerf, lol.

This was my first coding project, and basically taught me basic java due to reverse engineering your work. I've loved this mod, but I agreed with you that it was very overtuned if you knew what you were doing.

The thing I want to work on the most is supporting the providing block to enemies archetype, it's a cool idea, but falls flat verses the degeneracy you can put on display with Piety and Gold.

Hey! Just found about this mod on a bout of playing StS after years of absence :D.

No need to worry about taking it down, it's super cool that you've done this! I haven't had the chance to play it yet, but I will definitely do and leave my thoughts. I doubt I will continue to work on the mod actively, but I'm happy to help from the sidelines.

And from what it's worth, I'm on the camp that Hiero was a bit overtuned (if you know how to play him) though a big part of that is Church Coffers. If you're curious about the idea I had to nerf it right after I stopped work on it, my plan was to add the line "+1 to the cost for the rest of the fight". It would still allow for degenerate play with a lot of money, but not too degenerate.

I'll come back when I've had the chance to play!

Good suggestions, and something I'll have to look in to. I'd be welcome to hear some of your ideas on what could use the most improvement. I know the "make the enemy blocked" archetype could use a bit of love.

Maybe instead of directly nerfing cards, you can nerf them indirectly by requiring synergies? If a card doing 3 damage before was a little overturned, consider making it “deal 3 extra damage for each doubloon in your hand.” Now it’s zero extra damage most of the time, but i the downside can be mitigated through smart drafting.

That part - using smart drafting to make your deck slightly better, instead of just looking out for certain cards/archetypes - is the part where I feel hierophant could use the most improvement.

I still really like a lot of things about the mod - Piety is maybe my favorite mod mechanic I’ve seen - but I spend most of my runs wishing I could delete about 3/4s of the card pool once I’ve started to specialize. I think that’s the one thing this mod is missing relative to the base characters - the sense that there’s so many viable combinations of cards to make a good deck even if you’re not drafting towards a clear archetype.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with the hierophant mod has always been exemplified by boss swapping into Pandora's Box at Neow.

All the base characters (and the best modded ones, like Hermit) have enough little micro-synergies between all their various archetypes that this swap actually makes your deck better.


Doing that on Hierophant makes the character utterly unplayable, because all of the different archetypes do their own thing, and - crucially - this means that lots of the cards are actually worse than the starter set unless they fit in your deck.

This mod has a lot of great ideas. Piety in particular is really smart. But the mod being so disjointed means that drafting new cards on Hierophant just isn't really that fun compared to other modded characters with more synergies to combine.

hi blalo'u
i thought up some potions last year, and just posted them here:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/646570/discussions/2/3553931489678246167/

you are very welcome to add some if you think they could be fun :)
(i havent made a character mod for slay the spire, but i did make a recycling mod for rimworld and could add you a he-man / skelletor item or something there for you as thanks)

since this hierophant mod is all about gold, they could be quite fitting

Doubloons are kind of their own thing, even in the original mod, they worked exactly the same, except that their Hoard value was 8. Doubloons are basically optional status cards half the time. You want to avoid playing them as much as you can and rely on the other high impact cards in your deck, while being able to play them in an emergency. The many Doubloon likers can be at odds, but sometimes they just belong in a different deck.

I'm currently working on making some of the commons that don't have to do with piety or fervor have higher numbers. I'm also considering changing Church Coffers to its original form: 2 cost gain 2(3) energy, draw 2, tithe. But this time giving it exhaust, or maybe Exhaustive, so you can only play it a couple of times. I'm not sure how the 1 1 1 version is working out, but it being infinite use was clearly a problem.

It's none too shabby of a character other than this. Its all just a matter of details now, tweaking numbers, providing options to scale in later game situations. I'm not great at the game, but i'm finding it hard to get past the second act, not ignoring most of the interesting cards, and going for sheer stats and what good scaled there are (Like that hoard-block card, i think it was called Ornate Shield)

Getting a raw, unupgraded doubloons kinda feels... bad. They do offer some gain, a net positive of +2 gold if you use one every other fight, but particularly if you get them early, your bank never recovers as you are spending a lot of money for one more draw to make up for the lack of previously mentioned scaling. With it in mind, the inclusion of cards that scale off doubloons are sick but they all kinda want different things. One wants them in your discard pile, one wants them exhausted, one wants them in your hand; meaning that these cards kinda don't play well with one another, unless you have a LOT of them.

Hoard, tithe, and in general the coin cards are interesting and flavorful, but whenever i've tried to invest in it, excuse the pun, It eventually feels like im filling my deck with status or weak curse cards. I don't think there needs to be any major changes to the system, but more how they interact with it. Ornate Javalin[b\] is something that comes to mind, its a neat push for damage but it's exhausts, so it's 18 damage once a fight, and you lose the hoard bonus. Compare this to something similar like Carnage, and it's night and day. I feel it doesn't have enough of an impact for it's cost or it's use cases. I could say "buff its damage", and that could be what you go with, but i'm trying to stay oblique here, as this is your mod, not mine, and it seems like feedback like that is more helpful to folks

i'm glad you are receptive to feedback, and you are experimenting with things. I hope my previous feedback was not too harsh, it's just that it feels like the raw stats of the character just aren't all there, though this makes sense with you being careful.

Piety IS circumstantially strong; it has all the support it needs, if im honest, it's an excellent AoE effect on the back-end and on the forward, you can hard invest in it and get major payoffs even with the deprication at the end of turns. Honestly kind of a good call not printing a card that says "don't lose piety at the end of your next turn" too frequently.

Part 1 of 3.

Yeah I have a feeling I know why the Pandora's Box thing is happening, might have accidentally deleted the basic tag. I'll look into Smite too.

2 quick bugs:
If you have fervor, smite brackets show more damage than it actually deals.
Pandora's box ignores defends. Didn't have strikes but I'd check them too.

@Zu I'm welcome to hear any ideas for changes. I know there is still more work to be done, but I haven't gotten much chance to test because I've been busying debugging, as well as basically reconstructing many outdated classes from the old version of the source code I got, while also learning how to code from basically scratch by reverse engineering. So I haven't gotten much chance to play full runs, and I very much need feedback to know what I changed too much, and what still needs changing. I'm not done.

Auric Form could easily add 30+ piety and fervor every single turn for a fairly nominal gold fee, if you had any kind of Hoard engine running. Definitely not okay. Same with Auric Beam. 500 gold is 50 damage, pre fervor. And 500 gold is lowballing it on some runs.

The Downfall Discord and I knew many ways to split the character in half. If the win rate was low (which by the way I knew, we were laughing about it on the Discord) it's because people didn't know how to play the character.

@SandTag Hierophant was *clearly* over powered if you had more than two brain cells to rub together. Church Coffers is a *starter* card that, at worst, was a net-zero energy draw 2, and at best was a gain 2 energy draw 2 cards for 20 energy. That did not exhaust. Many infinites were had with that card alone.

Piety, and Smite especially, could just do way too much damage for a common 1 cost, especially when combined with Fervor. And fervor itself just enabled some unholy things. If you had any way to stack it reasonably (say, Glossololia) you could have 2 cost cards hitting for 60+ regularly. Normal.

More like choice cards were(are?) overtuned. Grab some piety and full block with pristine soul. Next turn, double exaltation into smite for 150 damage.

Then you look at purify and think "Slice that deals +4 for 30 gold?" (Sure, it's above average vs full hp stuff like minions, but so bad otherwise.)

I admit I never understood the doubloon hype, but maybe I'm smol brain.

@Chad Malakus Minty spire produces annual data for modded characters, check in the #modding-technical channel of the official discord server.

Where can i see run data for the characters?

Heirophant was not overpowered LMAO do you even know how to look at run data? Heirophant has a WRV of 1215 (790 Normalised).

For comparison, the weakest vanilla character (defect) has a WRV of 2068 (1551 normalised).

If all this mod does is Nerf the character then you have unequivocally missed the mark in the most hilarious way possible.

I'm still open to keeping the damage upgrade on Strikes and Defends, I'm still in the experimentation phase. The first phase was focused on nerfs, now I'm waiting on feedback to what needs a buff, as values of cards were nearly impossible to judge when everything was so overpowered.

I'll be honest, i don't know the original mod, but this character feels like a lot of mitigating different things, even when focusing on one, without the value of those cards coming forward to meet those costs in the middle.

One of the bigger things is how the upgrades to basics cards now come with tithe, with no real additional benefit. Tithe is a very cool concept, but ultimately, its an alternate cost method, not a real buff to anything in the long run. A 0-cost 5 block card, is only a little bit better than a 1-cost 5-block card in the grand scheme of things, and only feels worse when in later acts. Tithing is a cool feature, but they shouldn't interfere with scaling. It just makes my defends feel even worse than they are naturally.

AvangionQ Yes, however it's kinda pointless. My version is a higher version number than the original content, so it would load mine by default. If you want to play Old Hierophant you would need to unsubscribe from mine on workshop.

Always nice to see new life added to abandoned content

Can you have both Hierophants installed without any issues?