The new guilds are perhaps a bit to strong. It allowed me to easily catch up on science during the classical era while playing on emperor difficulty. I do like the changes to the great people though.

That is not a bug. The new guilds don't show up on the tech tree because they do not require a technology to build. I wanted to give players the option to generate great people as early in the game as possible, so that they could try some great person blitz strategies.

I did experiment with having the new guilds require an ancient era technology before they can be built. It would be very easy to add such constraints back in yourself via a mod-of-a-mod or editing the files directly.

Gave your mod a go, but i encountered something wierd. I expected the new great-people buildings to be fully intergrated into the tech-tree, but I found that they are available at the start of the game. Is this intended or is this a bug? It seems more reasonable that they are unlocked along the techtree, like the artisan workshops.

I really love this mod..... but it looks like the latest update will basically break the Great Scientist :/ Apparently, they're considering the ability to get multiple free techs in a row an exploit, and so they're nerfing the max overflow to 5 turns of science. Which sucks.

Zarkham, mods that change science speed usually work by editing the scaling factor for science or by directly change the cost of techs. The only part of this mod which that could impact would be a Great Scientist's "Discover Technology", but since that is based on the quantity of science the player is generating I don't believe it is scaled by the ResearchPercent in GameSpeeds.

Is this mod affected by games which slow down science but keep production costs/time the same? I wouldn't think so but I've noticed more buildings usually means larger populations which means more specialists and thus the game can get a bit unbalanced.

FierceKuma, good to know everything is working properly for you. You can probably get away with re-enabling the mod since two parts of the version 5 update (released Aug 18th) were intended to address the specific issue you were seeing. If the black guild units aren't being deleted automatically you can enable some optional code that will delete them at the start of each turn. See the "How to enable DeleteBlankGuildUnits" just after the FAQ above for how.

Hi Machivalli, I have removed some other mods I think is causing conflict and this mod is working as intended, thanks for the amazing mod.

How does the AI behave with this mod? Are they aware of the potential of building this early to maximize the benefits, or just build it randomly after everything else is built?

Humm the usual name of Alexandre Eiffel is Gustave Eiffel that's better .The mod is cool however.I'm french so sorry for faults

I think letting scientists give 3 science so that all specialists give 3 productivity would go a long way to helping keep them relatively balanced when stacking the mods. As is in the mod the point of scientists is to spawn great scientists for tech sling shots which you have to time properly since jungle tiles are just better as far as actual +science goes, and great engineers giving +2 pop which can be set to work as scientists or on jungle tiles and benefiting from your libraries/public schools is going to have a very comparable effect on your science/turn output, as will trade routes from customs houses on higher diffiiculties if you are say venice.

I like the idea of the guilds, however I think there should be a prequisite tech like there is with the writer's, musician's and artist's

whitemage_of_doom, I pretty much agree with you. The imbalance between Great People in non-modded civ5 was something Reform and Rule could only attack indirectly -- by boosting Great Merchants more than Great Scientists. Titans was a mod where I wanted to attack the issue directly. I want people to be able to play Reform and Titans together and separately, but due to the synergy between them balancing for both situations becomes tricky. One possible approach would be to make a giant mega mod that mushed Reform, Race, Titans, etc in one giant mod which would be 90% the same but I could make minor tweaks to avoid the excess synergies.

However, such a mega mod approach would shun the modularity aspect and while Reform and Race are modestly popular I'm not sure how many people who play with one of them also play with all my other mods.

FierceKuma, the blank unit is used to get around some internal technical limitations in civ. It is suppose to be deleted automatically so players don't see it. You are not the first person to experience the bug where the unit is not properly deleted. Are you able to delete the unit manually via the disband UI? Could you also send me your database.log and lua.log so I can see what might be causing the behavior? My current theory is that it has to do with another mod using an outdated version of the SerialEventUnitCreatedGood code.

*cannot

I don't really understand why there is a unit appear in the city where each guild is build, you can control them and they have no avatar, but worse yet since you lose the ability to buy special unit there (GP from faith, missionary and inquisitors)

between this and all your other mods, i think the term overkill comes into play in nerfing scientists and buffing merchants.

+6 gold, +1 prod, +2 science, +2 food per merchants, vs. +1 prod +3 science +1 food per scientist.

Academies giving +8 science total, while merchant houses give 4 food, 6 gold, and a trade route, and manufacturies giving +6 production +2 population, +2 happiness.

Mind you, i might actually build manufacturies now since +4 production per great tile improvement kinda made them worthless, harhar.
Also DEFINITELY no reason not to go freedom with all your mods installed now, except autocracy when i want to play domination.

I already tried, if I select it no menu pops up, just the unit portrait that is blank. Even the one outside the city itself too.

Surely the engineer should be Isambard Kingdom Brunel.

You should be able to select and delete the spearman unit (nothing wrong will happen as it was suppose to be deleted for you).

I believe the mod that is conflicting with the Spearman is the Starting Scout Mod.

Bummer too, since I can't make any more Civilian units at all in my city, they're prevented by the Spearman that can't move.

So much for an Epic length Modern Era game, sigh.

-_-, I've verified that due to a bug players are only being given trade routes for the first custom's house they build, instead of for every custom's house. I'm working on a fix that I hope to release tonight or tomorrow.

That spearman is suppose to spawn but be killed right away so you don't see him. Does he have a promotion called MARKED_FOR_DEATH?

Can you enable logging, load up your game just before you finish a guild, play until the guild completes and then send me your lua.log and database.log files?

One possible cause is that in another mod you are using someone is using an outdated version of my unit created code, which is conflicting with. You could verify this by searching (via something like grep or notepad++) through your mod directory for "Events.SerialEventUnitCreated.Add(CallSerialEventUnitCreatedGood);" and see if the files all have version number 5 at the top.

Also, if I end up making more than one guild in a city, or even one, it spawns an un-moveable Spearman that never dies, and if I make more than one it causes it to spawn outside of my city, is this intended?

That is not the intended behavior. I'll do some investigation and see if I can fix it. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

First off all Love the mod. When i use up a Great Merchant to make a Customs House i get a extra trade route, but when u use the second Great Merchant i dont get a extra trade route. even if i use it in a diferent city limet i still only get 1 extra trade route max. is there a way to get 1 extra trade route per city (if u build a Customs House at every city). or that it makes it so that every Customs House gives a trade route.

Awesome mod! I personally love your others. Its ironic how I found you when I was supposed to be reading your book.

Nice work!

DrKultra-You don't understand the more science korea and babylon generates then the more they can actually use less science in order to focus on many types of victory. Korea and other science types of civs can be effective warmongers due to the science boost so they can have a stable science output while having advanced armies. Please think of the future because it seems you are saying that your opinion is correct and mine is wrong.

Necrotic, you are essentially correct. All of a player's living (aka unused) Great Scientists have their bulb effectiveness reduced when another Great Scientist is born.

I have seen strategies that rush a Great Scientist and bulb him to do a timing attack around turn 100 or so. I have also seen strategies that spend most of the game generating merchants or engineers but get one scientist post-plastics for a big efficient bulb.

There are more ways to do the former than the later so if you've got a strategy in mind (or a game where you tried it) I would like to hear the result!

Am i correct in saying that if you don't bulb your great scientists, but instead academy them, it still decrease the effectiveness of bulbing subsequent scientists?

do you think this effects this balance of the early game, seeing that it becomes much more effeciant to bulb your first scientists, and academy your later ones?

Beel - So you mean that an OP civ like Korea or Babylon is gonna be OP if they use Science Buildings? Madness. Mach knows as much, Great Scientists quickly fall off in how much science they provide, and in a way this mod is actually a nerf to Babylon, if anything Korea being too strong with any kind of specialist bonus/extra is just a testament to how stupidly broken Korea is.

Think of the scientist guild in one city with sejong or any other science focused civ.

I really like the idea of the +1 trade route for merchants. I never build Customs houses in the game, mostly cause I never get merchants. Not as useful as say scientists or engineers. But now they can be pretty good.

All of what? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If your concern is the guilds being built everywhere there can only be one scientist guild in a player's empire.

If you can add all of those on every turn on the amount of cities and citizens you have then you might know what i'm talking about.

Beel, would you be willing to provide some more detail as to the bonuses you are concerned about? Many aspects of this mod were intended to make it less effeicient to generate nothing but Great Scientists.

For example:
Scientist specialists generate 2 not 3 Science
Academies produce 6 not 8 Science
A stockpile of Great Scientists bulbed after plastics will produce approximately half the Science they would normally.

With the large bonuses to the things you included then everygame you play with this mod enabled will be fast and the one who rushes on science buildings and production will have an advantage on technology thus leading to an easy science victory or you will be ahead too much that it gets boring.

Captain, what aspects or areas strike you as too extreme? Even if your initial impressions change I would like to know more about them as I don't want this mod to have a terrible first impression.

I don't think this is very balanced at all...

Granted, I haven't actually tried the mod, but from what I've read in the desc, it just looks crazy unbalanced.

If it is a LUA element, can you work it in? I too have experienced the frustration of having a Great Scientist pushed back by a Great Merchant that I really didn't need.

joosegoose, it will provide +2 trade routes in the sense that the +1 will be doubled to +2 by Venice's trait.

DrKultra, I had a feeling as I typed that it required a DLL mod that there may be a way to do with with only LUA, which LastSword has.

Another question about Merchants of Venice- if they lay down a customs house is it +2 trade routes?

Ah, I was not aware it was a DLL mod to split the pool. Altho you might want to check with LastSword in Civ fanatics, his Mughal Civ has spit pools but has no warning about being a DLL mod, maybe he found a round about way of doing it?

You are spot on when you say that the shared counter is one of the core reason players avoid generating great merchants in the base game, it makes the all important great scientists more expensive. Unfortunately, splitting the counter would require modding the DLL which would reduce the mod's ability to combine with other DLL altering mods. So I had to attack the issue from a different direction.

Mach, big fan of your mods, would you ever think of adding a splitting of the great people point pool for this mod? IE. Getting a great merchant won't increase the cost of Scientists or Engineers?

I feel a big reason people don't use Great Merchants at all is because of the pressure of needing every last scientist possible to be able to get a leg up on the AI during the early/mid game, allowing Merchants and Engineers's cost to be split from the merchant cost would mean that working your gold specialists wouldn't put you behind forever.

The Palace not getting +1 Culture is a mistake. I'll release an update fixing that this evening. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Just to say i love your mods and they have transformed the game for me, many thanks for making them, they have provided hours of fun and i am always looking forward to see what you will make next. I was wondering why the +1 culture was removed from the palace in this one however, seems like you have to go for monument reducing early game flexibility because if you do not you will simply have +0 culture, so monument goes from somthing to speed up policy aquisition to somthing you just have to get or you will not be getting policies