@Wolf AFAIK, real captains measured distance by estimate or after the fact via how long it took the torpedo to hit.

After a bit of search, some people suggest they used one of their attack disk types together with the scope... To calculate range. (based on observed degree, and known mast height) Question is, which one? Can we do that using the attack disk mod we do have?

Hi, I think I'll switch to this mod, as x1.5 and x6 with 1/16 as you explained, is what the original type VII(b,c) used. Wanna play as close to reality I can.

If I retain my old method, (mast/ticks) x magnification
First I need to modify "magnif" from actual 1.5 and 6 to 1 for x1.5 and 4 for x6- understood.
works well.

Then,I use the method to x the end result by 0.9168 as one of the guys posted, I usually get very good ranges, very close to the target icon distance from my boat measured on map. (called cheating XD)

I tried it with a vanilla Dale class, and with only this mod.
So the formula is there. By us, for us. Works very good.

But can you tell me how UBOOT captains -actually- measured range by using the mast height from the identif. book, and the 1/16 scope? Did they have their own formula, or from the mast height and magnif. they basically learned to estimate by eye?

Or they literally used the same formula posted here?
thank you in advance,just very curious.

@DarkRaven Oh yea, it's help a little bit to quick estimate in mind, from 1-2km range it will be big enough, u can keep it in mind there 64 reticle = 4 deg x1.5 or 1 deg x6, but for those purpose better have full scope with degrees in sh5 twos attack scope have vertical scale in degrees, and only observer periscope have uknown reticles, mb mrads don't try to use them, actualy never try to use degrees as well, because in game you have perfect raobf

I'm very happy with your scope mod, i'ts calibrated well and i can calculate exact numbers with attack disk, to find aob, or range, and this wide view is awesome, thx. If only someone can create mod with added ship aspect ratio (lenght/height) for each ship to book with other info (mast, lenght,...) so it will be perfect gameplay

At base magnification, of course. At 6x it would only be 2.5 degrees.

@Amenthes It's already in degrees. 160 on the vertical scale for this reticle is 10 degrees.

@darkraven from this guide u need to convert mrad to degrees to get formula works, and you spoken in coments bellow, that 1/16 scale doesnt need to convert mrad to degrees, there is much easy to find aob with that scale, what do you mean? Is there some quick formula wich use 1/16 scale value without converting mast optical height to degrees?

I still don't get it, why they use back then this 1/16 scale, mb they have special logarithmic slide rule to quick calculate range or aob with this scale

But honestly, the juice isn't worth the squeeze to calculate AOB that way. Eyeballing to within 15 to 30 degrees is good enough, unless you're sniping from 3+ km.

@Amenthes That's a bit out of the scope of this comment section. Basically, you have to figure out how long a target is supposed to visually appear in the scope if it were at 90 degrees AOB. Then you take how long is actually, divide it by what is expected and take the arcsine of that result. I have a much neglected guide on the specifics of that, as well as other data finding methods at https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2486594396 .

@DarkRaven how to use this scale to calculate aspect ratio?

@Amenthes It is historical, per the British Report on U-570.

You can use the scale like mrad if you want, it's about 9% larger than mrad. If you reduce the result you'd get assuming an mrad scale by 10%, you'll be close enough for ranging. 10% is generally easier to calculate mentally than 9% and won't really matter much.

Interestingly, you can use it to time torpedo impacts. By calculating a target's range as if it were in mrad scale without the fore mentioned reduction, a 30 knot torpedo will take about 1 minute per km of calculated distance. It has an error of 1%, so a 3 minute calculated time will be off about 2 seconds.

Additionally, it has the use of making it easier to calculate AOB via the aspect ratio method, since you don't need to convert from mrad to degrees.

what actual use of 1\16 vertical scale? Is this historical on german subs? This scale not mrad, how u can use them in combat? Or mb this scale is somehow conected to imerial metrics? I got confused about this scale

I see some photos with 1\16, and also with 10 degree on 10 degree

@DarkRaven
Thank you so much! I removed the the More Accurate Periscope Sight mods, and only using these mods for now:
Realisitc Periscope Sight
Realistic UZO Sight
Realistic Binoculars Sight
More Accurate Bearing Markers

aswell as other mods:
Real Navigation
Das Book
No Spoilers
Attack Disc Remastered

I am feeling spoiled by Wolfpack, and trying to get the same feeling somehow. It was a long time I played subsims though, I got a subsim period now and I am throwing me in as newborn in U-Boat at hardest settings.

@Vantskruv More Accurate Periscope Sight uses a milliradian vertical scale, while Realistic Periscope Sight uses a 1/16th degree vertical scale. Realistic Periscope Sight and More Accurate - Wide feature a larger "widescreen" sight while in Fullscreen view mode (as seen in the third screenshot of this mod), while More Accurate non-wide and vanilla's Fullscreen view modes only fill the vertical space. I recommend to only use 1 periscope mod (if any) to help prevent issues.

Hence, what is the difference between More Accurate Periscope Sight mods and this mod, and when should you use the Wide version of the More Accurate Periscope Sight mods?

I am not sure if I should use this mod with the More Accurate Periscope Sight mods?
I am currently doing it though, but the observation periscope lens is black in fullscreen.

@DarkRaven, Thank you. Amazing!

@Bart 'Nazibal' Smit Should be fixed now. Sorry for the oversight on my part.

My observation periscope turns into a Black screen when I go 'full screen' on it. The other 2 view modes work fine. The attack periscope is not affected.

I am using your Realistic Periscope, realistic Uzo mod and Accurate bearing markers.

@ Rudi That's what this mod is for. =)

@DarkRaven Thanks! I understand and thanks for answering me questions. If you got a lot of free time ... a wide version with a 1/16 scale would be great. So we have a historically correct wide version.

@Rudi I just updated my wide mod a few minutes ago. Due to the scripting requirements (and the way I wrote it) for enabling a wide sight, only the Realistic Periscope setting is supported for it. I plan on updating my normal 'More Accurate Periscope Sights' to work with the normal setting, and maybe the realistic setting.

As for the bearing mod, I like it - that's why I made it, lol. There is currently an issue with bearing illumination being really dim and I don't think I can fix it. So take that into acount.

DarkRaven, sounds great. Thanks for double checking. Looking forward to your wide version. Will you still use a mrad scale with wide version? Would be great if there are both variants possible. So we can choose to use a historical sight with 1/16 degree or a simple to use variant with mrad. One Thing - zoom rate depends on game setting (realistic or not) with new game patch now. So will you bring x1.5 and x6 or the three non historical zoom rates with your wide mod? Or both like vanilla game does now? Please keep up your great work!
Do you recommend (after you updated wide version) to use your bearing marker mod for wide version too?

@Rudi Also, vanilla sights are more or less correct, at least on the vertical scale. Your variance likely comes from measuring an Empire class ship.

Can confirm these sights are spot on, at least for fullscreen.

I'll double check. Spent most of the night yesterday programming a solution to enable 'wide' sights, I didn't check for accuracy.

Hi Dark, I tested the new update without your mod. I assume there is now a x1.5 and x6 zoom only and with 1/16 degree scale at realistic setting in vanilla game.

Tried to get the range with new update (without any mod)

range = (mast / ticks) * 0.9168 * 4 (for x6 zoom)

Mast: 29.6
Ticks at x6: 72

That gave me a range of 1508m
Measured on map tells me 1700m

Maybe vanilla scale is a little bit of, or is this still the FOV? Devs wrote, it should be accurate now. Wonder why this still is 200m off.

When using this mod, does it correct this? Or what does this mod change after 2025.1?

Looks like 2025.1 update has borked this mod. It will need to be updated unfortunately

Correct on the magnification. As for the example, it's pretty close. 26.6 * 4 / (50 * 1.1) would be more correct.

Thanks for the help. The 1x or 4x is based on which magnification i'm on? like if in using 6x of zoom i shoud calculate using * 4, right? Ex: 26.6 * 4 / 50 * 1.1 = X is a feaseable example??

@AMONGUS??? Each 1/16 of a degree is about 1.091 mrad. The magnifications relative to the markings are 1x and 4x.

IIRC, a rough range estimate would be "mast height (m) * (1 or 4) / (vertical marking * 1.1) = range (km). Or calculate it as if it were vertical marks were mrads and subtract 10% from the resultant range. Same difference.

Hi, just wanted to know if u have a "mast height /divided by meridiands *times a constant number = distance to target" formula for the sights in this mod

Hey party people, seeing as wintermute-ta had not been able to update his mod, I'm unlisting this mod. Fear not; however, I've been working on a standalone version that will be integrated into this mod, which will also get an overhaul. This mod will truly be worthy of its name, soon™.

Realistic periscope magnification should still be working for 2022.1. As far as I know, it hasn't been updated for 2024.1 yet.

Hi DarkRaven - thanks for the great mods!
Is this mod and the "Realistic periscope magnification" mod working again ?

Yes. As a previous comment explained:

This is an alternative to HARDscope for Realistic periscope magnification. It uses a 1/16th degree vertical scale as opposed to a milliradian vertical scale. Also, the horizontal scale is calibrated more correctly. Additionally the graticule comes close to the reference picture for StaSR C/2 in RPM's link.

hello, is there any difference with the HARDSCOPE mod?

Most graticules in uboat subsims have a vertical mrad scale (with centiradian markings technically). I made this one specifically as 1/16 degree, because when I did so it more closely matched reference images that I could find.

Mrad scaling has the advantage for easier range finding, by the nature of its 1 vertical unit to 1000 horizontal unit angle. However, it's more difficult to get an optical AOB solution owing to the unit conversion (mrad to degree) that needs to be done.

1/16 degree is close to 1 mrad and has the opposite advantage and disadvantage.

In practice, I usually don't need to find range for a good solution (via a 90 degree shot) and in the cases I do, an approximate estimate is good enough. AOB is more important, but an estimate (+-15 degrees) usually is good enough especially if you're within 2 or 3 km.

Thanks for your answers.. hoping "Realistic periscope magnification" will be updated.

Is there a guide which explains that mrad and 1/16 thing in detail for beginners? U-Boot periscope guide would be great where I could learn fundamentels

I also got AOB of 71 deg when using arcsin @1/16 with my example values. But as you said - RPM needs an update, so my readings from the periscope maybe wrong.

Correction, AOB should be about 71 degrees.

Additional, the vertical markings on this graticule are not mrad, but rather 1/16 degrees. A small difference, but potentially important difference.

As this mod requires the "Realistic periscope magnification" mod to function correctly and that mod is currently not functioning on the unstable branch, this mod will not give meaningful results.

As I explained on my other mod page, Empire class ships have a variable size when they spawn, up to 20% larger or smaller. A spawned Empire Explorer could have an actual mast size between 35.52m and 23.68m. This will cause inaccuracies since the calculation doesn't know the actual size, only the listed size. Additionally, size difference also can cause the chonometer speed measurement to be inaccurate. To my knowledge, there is no way to determine the actual size from a single observation.

I can tell you, given the info provided, that the target's AOB is about 75 degrees.

Hi DarkRaven, I tried this one too and cannot get any meaningful results with it. Does it work with the latest beta or is it my fault here?

Got an enemy ship with again mast height 29.6m and length of 124m.

For the mast I measured 137 mrad optical height with this mod and for the ship lenght I got 34 degrees.

As my other example, looking into the map, the ships range should be about 950m.

Please tell me how to get these 950m with the measured values. Thanks again :-)

no worries i got it working just had to be some steam glitch.

ok thanks for the info.

As for the mod launcher, I got nothing, sorry.

This is an alternative to HARDscope for Realistic periscope magnification. It uses a 1/16th degree vertical scale as opposed to a milliradian vertical scale. Additionally the horizontal scale is calibrated more correctly. Additionally the graticule comes close to the reference picture for StaSR C/2 in RPM's link.

The only issue being the FOV is just slightly too zoomed in when using the ingame tools, namely the stadimeter, as a reference. I prefer a more in-game accurate and usable optic vs a more performative, but historically accurate, optic.

And Btw what does it realy do that the realistic magnification mod allready has..?

i cant find this in my mod launcher it does not showi up so i cant eneble it.? any suggestions?